Editing 5D & XHA1 footage together: bad plan? at DVinfo.net

Jeremy Nicholl · May 5th, 2009, 05:11 AM

I have a forthcoming project I want to shoot on the 5D, but I might need to shoot a couple of scenes on an XHA1 simply because it has a longer lens.

The XHA1 scenes will be completely different situations from the rest of the footage and the whole package is reportage rather than narrative, so I'm not concerned about getting the different footage to "look" the same. But what other traps are there? What about the different frame rates? I'm sort of assuming that the best thing is to convert all the footage to Pro-res, but really I'm guessing.

Has anyone got any work flow suggestions?

Many thanks.

Fred LeFevre · May 5th, 2009, 05:30 AM

I have the same situation so will be watching this thread to see what people think.

Pete Bauer · May 5th, 2009, 02:51 PM

It depends on your editing software, really. Different formats are no problem in Adobe CS4, although I'd recommend sticking to a common frame rate for footage that is going to be intercut (unless you are specifically planning to speed up or slow down the footage of one of the cameras).

Jon Fairhurst · May 5th, 2009, 03:01 PM

Since you are in a PAL country, the easiest way to work is to slow down the 30p footage to 25p. This assumes that you won't use any audio from the 5DII and that you like the slight slow motion look. (I like it.) If you need real time conversion to 25p, that's more complicated. Adobe After Effects is a good base tool. You can use their built-in stuff, and 3rd party plug ins are also available.

For NTSC countries, it's simple enough to slow 30.0 to 29.97. For edits with sync'd video, you'd need to slow that audio by 0.1%, but only for the 5DII clips, not for the standard camera clips.

Michael Friedman · May 5th, 2009, 03:03 PM

I have tried this.

I shot the A1 in 24fps and the 5d in 30fps (of course). I ended up transcoding both to ProRes which felt like a added burden (it would be nice if one of the formats was edit-friendly). The 5d made the A1 feel like standard def. I still haven't decided how I will work next time because there are so many trade-offs.

If you are shooting with the A1 for a long lens, wouldn't it be easier to just rent or buy a cheap zoom for the A1?

John Benton · May 5th, 2009, 03:41 PM

I have tried editing the XL-H1's footage with the 5D.
I converted both to ProRes, Technically it's fine
it's just that...
The 5D footage looked sooooooooo much nicer nicer than the HDV
It was hard to intercut.
But it sound like you will be using different cams in different situations and that could work nicely

good luck,
J

Daniel Browning · May 5th, 2009, 06:58 PM

They are about as different as night and day, but I intercut them anyway.

Joshua Fulton · May 5th, 2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Nicholl

I might need to shoot a couple of scenes on an XHA1 simply because it has a longer lens.

I don't understand this. I thought the term "long lens" referred to how long the lens was physically, meaning like 200mm up, or whatever.

But the lenses on the 5dmk2 are interchangeable, so couldn't you just put on a long lens?

Daniel Browning · May 5th, 2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Fulton

But the lenses on the 5dmk2 are interchangeable, so couldn't you just put on a long lens?

To get the same angle of view and light gathering power as the XH-A1 lens would require a 650mm f/8.5. And the zoom capability would require a 32.5-650 f/4-8.5.

Nigel Barker · May 5th, 2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Browning

To get the same angle of view and light gathering power as the XH-A1 lens would require a 650mm f/8.5. And the zoom capability would require a 32.5-650 f/4-8.5.

You cannot achieve that zoom range on the 5DII but you can approach it with a Sigma 50-500mm F4-6.3. Very long telephoto lenses can be had very cheaply although they are often more like cheap telescope with a Canon EF mount. Here's an 800mm for less than the equivalent of $250.

Falcon 800mm f/8.0 ED Mirror Tele Lens for Canon New! on eBay, also, For Digital SLR, Camera Lenses, Photography (end time 31-May-09 11:02:33 BST) Given the price the quality must be questionable but you could always use a Canon 'L' telephoto with a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter if you really need that long shot.

Jeremy Nicholl · May 6th, 2009, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Fulton

I don't understand this. I thought the term "long lens" referred to how long the lens was physically, meaning like 200mm up, or whatever.

But the lenses on the 5dmk2 are interchangeable, so couldn't you just put on a long lens?

My ideal solution would be a 500 or 600mm f4L perhaps plus converter on the 5d, but I don't own those and they're not available for rental, hence the XHA1 solution.

Since the whole thing will be run and gun - or more likely stumble and fumble - I'm not sure I even have the option of slowing the 5d frame rate in post [I'll be using FCP], since at least some of the audio will come in through the camera. Audio that doesn't will go to a Microtrack, but I assume that if I then slow the camera frame rate I'll have terrible problems syncing the audio.

Here's an odd idea. Since the audio on one of the XHA1 shots won't be critical, why not increase the frame rate to 30fps to match the 5d? The shot will be vehicles moving, so it shouldn't look unnatural if they're slightly quick. And the piece will only ever go to web, so 30fps shouldn't be a problem. I think.

Julian Frost · May 6th, 2009, 03:21 PM

I believe Cineform's Neo Scene adjusts the 5D mk II's footage to 29.97 fps and adjusts the audio to suit.

Julian

Dennis Wood · May 6th, 2009, 06:23 PM

The Stillmotion crew still intercuts 5D MkII footage with Canon XH-A1 footage shot using our adapter. This is a better match as the DOF and overall look of both rigs work well together. In low light, the 5D is much cleaner and ends up a few stops more sensitive than the XH-A1...so I suspect it will become their standard for very low light shoots.

Cheers,
Dennis Wood
www.cinevate.com

Sean Seah · May 13th, 2009, 05:14 AM

i did my first one last weekend. Combined EX1 + Canon A1 + 5DII. Footage turned out different like day n nite! The 5D2 (Neoscene) looked similar to the EX1 footage when one goes at 29.97p and the other at 50p. However the A1 really stood out at 25P.

I am also figuring out the best way for PAL land integration. I tink i will likely to shoot 25p for EX1 and hopefully they will turn out not too different.

May 5th, 2009, 05:11 AM	#1
Jeremy Nicholl Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Moscow, Russian Federation Posts: 50	Editing 5D & XHA1 footage together: bad plan? I have a forthcoming project I want to shoot on the 5D, but I might need to shoot a couple of scenes on an XHA1 simply because it has a longer lens. The XHA1 scenes will be completely different situations from the rest of the footage and the whole package is reportage rather than narrative, so I'm not concerned about getting the different footage to "look" the same. But what other traps are there? What about the different frame rates? I'm sort of assuming that the best thing is to convert all the footage to Pro-res, but really I'm guessing. Has anyone got any work flow suggestions? Many thanks.

May 5th, 2009, 05:30 AM	#2
Fred LeFevre New Boot Join Date: May 2008 Location: Windsor, Ontario Posts: 15	Subscribing to this thread I have the same situation so will be watching this thread to see what people think.

May 5th, 2009, 02:51 PM	#3
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	It depends on your editing software, really. Different formats are no problem in Adobe CS4, although I'd recommend sticking to a common frame rate for footage that is going to be intercut (unless you are specifically planning to speed up or slow down the footage of one of the cameras). __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

May 5th, 2009, 03:01 PM	#4
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Since you are in a PAL country, the easiest way to work is to slow down the 30p footage to 25p. This assumes that you won't use any audio from the 5DII and that you like the slight slow motion look. (I like it.) If you need real time conversion to 25p, that's more complicated. Adobe After Effects is a good base tool. You can use their built-in stuff, and 3rd party plug ins are also available. For NTSC countries, it's simple enough to slow 30.0 to 29.97. For edits with sync'd video, you'd need to slow that audio by 0.1%, but only for the 5DII clips, not for the standard camera clips. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

May 5th, 2009, 03:03 PM	#5
Michael Friedman Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 57	I have tried this. I shot the A1 in 24fps and the 5d in 30fps (of course). I ended up transcoding both to ProRes which felt like a added burden (it would be nice if one of the formats was edit-friendly). The 5d made the A1 feel like standard def. I still haven't decided how I will work next time because there are so many trade-offs. If you are shooting with the A1 for a long lens, wouldn't it be easier to just rent or buy a cheap zoom for the A1? __________________ http://www.michaelfriedman.org/

May 5th, 2009, 03:41 PM	#6
John Benton Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 658	I have tried editing the XL-H1's footage with the 5D. I converted both to ProRes, Technically it's fine it's just that... The 5D footage looked sooooooooo much nicer nicer than the HDV It was hard to intercut. But it sound like you will be using different cams in different situations and that could work nicely good luck, J

May 5th, 2009, 06:58 PM	#7
Daniel Browning Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 949	They are about as different as night and day, but I intercut them anyway.

May 6th, 2009, 03:21 PM	#12
Julian Frost Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California USA Posts: 576	I believe Cineform's Neo Scene adjusts the 5D mk II's footage to 29.97 fps and adjusts the audio to suit. Julian

May 6th, 2009, 06:23 PM	#13
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	The Stillmotion crew still intercuts 5D MkII footage with Canon XH-A1 footage shot using our adapter. This is a better match as the DOF and overall look of both rigs work well together. In low light, the 5D is much cleaner and ends up a few stops more sensitive than the XH-A1...so I suspect it will become their standard for very low light shoots. Cheers, Dennis Wood www.cinevate.com

May 13th, 2009, 05:14 AM	#14
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	i did my first one last weekend. Combined EX1 + Canon A1 + 5DII. Footage turned out different like day n nite! The 5D2 (Neoscene) looked similar to the EX1 footage when one goes at 29.97p and the other at 50p. However the A1 really stood out at 25P. I am also figuring out the best way for PAL land integration. I tink i will likely to shoot 25p for EX1 and hopefully they will turn out not too different.