DP1 for 5D Glidecam On its way at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 1st, 2009, 08:55 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 170
DP1 for 5D Glidecam On its way

The DP1 went on sale at 9PM EST from smallHD.com. Soon it will be integrated into
my 5D Glidecam X-10 Stabilizing rig. The the testing of HDMI vs Composite signals
and the evaluation of how best to snake either cable down the center post will ensue.
Tom Daigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 10:15 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 205
I thought the HDMI out on the 5DmkII automatically downressed to 480 letterboxed when recording. Also explaining the newly adopted LCD viewfinders produced by Zacuto and Hoodman.
Jacob Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 10:21 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Mason View Post
I thought the HDMI out on the 5DmkII automatically downressed to 480 letterboxed when recording.
Tramm Hudson (of Magic Lantern Software fame) has made it one of his "to do" objectives
to see what he can do about that situation. We have all seen his recent glowing success with the audio capabilities and performance of the 5D
Tom Daigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 10:22 PM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
That is correct- while recording it only outputs a max res of 480p.
__________________
Glen Elliott
Cord 3 Films
Glen Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2009, 10:56 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
I've got the Hoodman, and I definitely want a monitor - not because I don't like the Hoodman, it's because a viewfinder isn't the right tool for balance rigs, tripods, dollies, sliders, and jibs. It's perfect for shoulder rigs though...
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:48 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 57
no need for HD for stabilizers

There's no need to see a true HD image when using a Steadicam/Glidecam/mom's broom pole camera stabilizer. In fact, for twenty+ years operators have been using a tiny monochromatic green screen from a fuzzy eyepiece video tap on a 35mm. The monitor is merely for framing reference. True gigs should utilize an AC with a wireless FF pulling your focus for you as you run you ass off in a rig.

Albeit, this all goes out the window for you wedding dudes. Shoot wide and iris tight, that way everything is in focus all the time.

-dave
David A. Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2009, 04:15 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 170
This fine, well designed and reasonably priced monitor will serve me well in both mobile and static setups.
Tom Daigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2009, 05:08 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 207
Any idiot or blind person could catch focus in NTSC - it was designed soft and broadcast one fuzzy line over the other (yeah it was quick and fuzzy - I really do understand the old technology but I'm trying to make a point). I've debated with friends and producers on assignments trying to figure out what is in focus. The colored peaking on the EX cameras is a gift from god for those of us with average eyesight. The 17 inch monitors I set up are a gift from me and Panasonic - sharp, but I'd hate to see someone lug it on a steadicam. True gigs probably have an AC, or a soundman doing double duty, or a helpful grip, but hell - true gigs are getter fewer and far betweener (perhaps not in Dallas, perhaps not for you).

Sure all the old film guys could do follow focus in the dark at f 1.0 - but for mortals like the rest of us if you are shooting HD you damn well better be monitoring HD.

As for the broom pole camera stabilizer - it doesn't take an enlightened DP, eyestrained AC, or "runover by everybody wedding photographer" to know where you might put that ( and upside the head would probably be a better first choice).

I don't shoot weddings or features, but just about everything in between. I appreciate all the good advice I get here, even disagree with some of it, but I'm not going to piss on anyone - wedding photogs, folks shooting their kids, Nat Geo people on the first video shoot or guys from Dallas with an ax to grind.

If I mistook your message or tone ----sorry.
Denis OKeefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2009, 09:15 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 57
Wow Dennis!

That's not at all as I intended my message.

I guess my round about point was that at what point have we diluted what we do as DP's? Not to long ago, and still to this day, I'd hire a steadicam op for steadicam gigs and a jimmy jib op for jimmy jib gigs. By diluting yourself from being a true DP and bending over to take your broom pole for a $250 craigslist gig that requires you to do all three, you are therefore shoving it up the asses of all of us. Thanks but I don't take it that way from anyone thank you.

Therefore, it's especially important with new tools like the 5D at our disposal, that we don't dilute the profession even further by providing a Steadiesque image stabilization on such a now critical focus tool without budgeting for an AC.

What's better for the common good? Getting your $1300/day rate to be a DP with gear and pulling off beautiful shots, or a $250/day rate to be a DP/AC/Gaffer/Grip/Audio?

And bring on the arguments about "breaking in" or "times are tough," and I'll show you all the suckers who have now locked themselves into always being the "no budget dude," while the producer calls the real DP when he's got a real budget.
David A. Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2009, 10:57 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 170
Isnt it interesting how our personal perspective and experiences really shape our perception of the world and others?
I say this in preface to help define the basis of my enthusiastic comments on the DP1 monitor, the 5D camera and the Glidecam.
First off...I am an editor...have been for 30 years (CMX/Avid/FCP) doing primarily big budget commercials for Las Vegas casinos.
My love of editing motivated me to build a bay at home to enhance my learning and
serve as a tool for artistic expression. The 5D and Glidecam and DP1 monitor were
additional tools purchased to allow me to enjoy self expression thru independant
"film making".
Tom Daigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2009, 02:23 PM   #11
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,781
All of you have made good points, even as you ruffle each other's feathers...

This industry is changing, and fast. While there are still lots of productions out there being done the "old fashioned way" (that might mean film, or at least film-style with HD cameras), there's no question that the new technologies are going to bring on changes that will have a resounding effect. The ability to shoot with the 5D with minimal lighting is already allowing for footage to be shot in minimal or available light that may be "good enough" for even high end productions. This trend will obviously continue.

As of now, pulling focus is still a highly skilled and specialized job (I say "as of now" because who knows what is lurking down the road...) and large-sensor cameras such as the 5D and the proposed Epics etc. present a formidable challenge to focus pullers. I've been talking to the AC's on a feature that has been primarily using the 5D (this being shot by a big-name DP, a smaller movie than he generally does but still a multi-million $ budget) and they are having to resort to a fair amount of ingenuity to manage the exceptionally shallow focus presented by the camera, including mounting a Cinetape with remote readout, using a Preston FIZ and so on.

They aren't using HD transmitters and monitors for checking focus yet--I personally would have suggested that they try this--but many AC's are still dubious about how to incorporate monitors into their workflow. For years they have been able to divine critical focus without the aid of a monitor, and placing their attention into a monitor is a whole new approach that some take to immediately and others find a distraction. Remember that pulling from a monitor is almost always reactive--you almost have to see things go out of focus to be able to bring them back in. On a closeup it may be impossible to sense a minute forward or backward movement of your subject until the eyes go soft, and then it's too late.

The advice that David gave about shooting with a tight (i.e. stopped down) aperture is valid. This is going to be the only way to survive shooting with a 5D on a small stabilizer that has neither remote follow focus or someone to operate it. along with wider focal lengths. When the affordable remote does become widespread (I'll put my money on the Hocus Focus, nearing production), this still will likely be implemented by a focus novice, gamely spinning the knob and buzzing back and forth across the critical focus mark. I've seen a lot of "searching" focus in the past couple of years and this will only become more so. I'm also imaging this poor soul bending down and trying to get his face into the Steadicam monitor to get his focus feedback, which will be completely in the way of the operator...ouch.

As far as having HD monitoring on a Glidecam, I will say that I have not seen the DP1 in person, but having just hosted a 14-monitor comparison in broad daylight I can guess what its 300 NITS will look like under those circumstances. Not being able to see what you are shooting trumps HD resolution hands-down, unless you only plan to shoot indoors.
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2009, 07:54 PM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 170
Paradigm Shift

In my experience the 5D has created a paradigm shift. Its design, capabilities and cost
take it out of the standard realm of video production. By this I mean the old definitions of what is needed for productions has expanded a bit. Yes big budget shoots will still subscribe to the "LA studio" way of doing things and the wedding photogs also may continue in the manner they have always done things. But a range in between (indie projects, art pieces, documentaries) might be experiencing slight shifts in their approach to projects. In this scenario, when shooting my doc, the HDMI display on the Glidecam allows me to make more judgements then just composition. Lighting and focus can be evaluated as well. Maybe not appro for Hollywood, but good for the niche markets that are struggling to survive in the present economy and do more with less.
Tom Daigon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #13
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,781
You'll have to let us know how you get along. The problem with working with a small stabilizer like yours is that even if you detect a focus issue, what are you going to be able to do about it?--physically move in or out until you achieve focus--not ideal.

I'm also curious about a monitor that big on such a small stabilizer. The biggest display on any full-size Steadicam is 8.4" and many consider that too much.

I myself will be playing around with a 5D and downsized stabilizer this week so I'm going to be making my own discoveries...!
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 410
I attempted something tonight. That probably wasn't the best way to start this off either. I attached my 5D to my Glidecam 4000 and attached it all to my Glidecam Smooth shooter. I have an Indie Follow Focus on the 5D and used the whip. It took a while to get everything balanced and it still wasn't close enough to use, but for what I was doing, it worked. The Varizoom was at the bottom of the Glidecam and to far away to even see come close to deciding if the shot was in/out of focus. The whip on the Indie focus worked fine because I had a free hand because of the Smooth Shooter.
The biggest problem I ran into, other than not being able to see the screen, was actually pushing the camera when I used the FF. I'm not a pro Glidecam user by any stretch and that might get better with time, but for now, it sucked.
HTH
Chad Dyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2009, 09:27 PM   #15
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,781
mmm...

Gimbaled stabilizers require isolation from the operator to do what they do. Having a whip off a conventional follow focus will defeat the isolation.

Beyond that, you should be using both hands on the rig at all times. One on the post, the other on the handle.
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:20 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network