Contemplating 5dMkII Purchase...

Laffan Nasser · July 4th, 2009, 11:09 PM

Hello Folks

I have Canon XHA1 and Sony EX1 , I'm thinking of getting the 5D Mark II , my concern is if I get this DSLR my both camcorders will be on shelf.

Please stop me and tell me DSLR has limitation producing HD video versus my camcorders.

What I like on 5D Mark II is the depth of field.

Olof Ekbergh · July 5th, 2009, 07:44 AM

The MkII is a great cam, but in my opinion it does not replace a video-cam.

I have an EX3 and a few others as well as my mkII. I use the EX3 about 90% of the time.

Of course it depends on what you are shooting for.

I see the mkII as a great added tool with lots of advantages, DOF lots of great lenses for not much money, great low light capabilities.

But it has terrible ergonomics is very hard to focus (it is a still camera and a great one at that), sound is pretty much unusable. Serious problems with thin horizontal lines. Only shoots 30p (not 29.97 even), no timecode. Codec produces lots of noise in high contrast sand sharp focus shots.

There are ways do deal with those problems, but it is a lot of extra work.

I still love the mkII, it can get shots you cant get with a small chip video cam, but I would never consider to use it as my only cam.

Read these threads:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...-problems.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...-concerns.html

And search this and other forums for more discussions.

Jon Fairhurst · July 5th, 2009, 08:56 AM

The lack of 24/25p is an issue for many. You can only record 12 minutes or so per clip.

Ergonomics can be solved to some degree with a shoulder rig and Hoodloupe or Z-Finder - if that fits your style of shooting. In any case, good stabilization is critical.

The camera doesn't support good sound out of the box - there are no XLR inputs and automatic level control is always on. The sound can be improved greatly with the Magic Lantern firmware and a clean active preamp, such as the juicedLink CX 231. Alternatively, use an external recorder, like the H4n, and sync to the built-in-mic audio of the 5D2.

Christian Ionescu · July 7th, 2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

... Only shoots 30p (not 29.97 even),...

It has been clarified on many threads that the real frame rate of the footage shot with 5DII is 29.97 and that the file header is miss written with 30p. The problem is easy to correct as has been shown in many work flow related threads.

Also, a fair discussion would be in terms of price/performance: almost 10k for a half inch sensor?

Many of the limitations on 5DII could be avoided with a careful setup. But a careful setup is needed for EX3 too as is needed for any professional work.

God help us all!

Jon Fairhurst · July 7th, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Ionescu

It has been clarified on many threads that the real frame rate of the footage shot with 5DII is 29.97 and that the file header is miss written with 30p. The problem is easy to correct as has been shown in many work flow related threads

That's not quite correct.

It shoots in 30p. You can slow it down to 29.97, or 25p, or 23.976p, or whatever, by just changing the header, but the video will be slower - only 0.1% slower in the case of 29.97.

When slowing the video to 29.97, you must also slow the audio to 0.999 speed to match.

After shooting all those audio tests, I'm 100% certain about this. :)

BTW, in the audio tests, I ran the video at 30p. That way I didn't need to change the rate of any of the audio during the comparisons.

Chris Hurd · July 7th, 2009, 10:55 AM

Jon is quite right, of course. The 5D2 does indeed shot at 30p, and not 29.97. The file headers are *not* being mis-written.

Steve Lewis · July 7th, 2009, 08:04 PM

Okay, I've made up my mind, I am buying the 5DMkII. Now, could someone (Jon) just tell me point blank: which audio device do I buy? Juicelink, Beachtek or H4n? (I already have the AT897)

Thanks so much for helping me make this decision guys!

-Steve

Jon Fairhurst · July 7th, 2009, 08:37 PM

Well, I'll still give you a choice... Do you want to run a one man show and not have to mess with sync in post? Get the juicedLink and run the Magic Lantern firmware. Of the combinations that I've tested, it's got the lowest noise and is amazingly crisp. The only downside of the sound is that it can be a touch harsh, but that's partly because we're used to transients being smeared.

On the other hand, maybe you have a sound guy who wants to run untethered. Or you want to rig up an inteview, but don't have the cash for a wireless kit. Maybe you want to do a candid camera stunt with a long lens and want to hide the microphone in the flower bed near the victim. In that case, get the Zoom. It's nearly as quiet as the JL/ML, though not as crisp and detailed.

And maybe the $50 price difference is significant. Then get the JL.

Also, if you want to record really subtle stuff, like birds in the distance, get the JL.

So, the juicedLink has the edge in sound, price and time in post, but if the independence of the H4n is valuable for your shooting style, then consider it instead. Both solutions deliver professional-worthy audio at a prosumer price.

July 5th, 2009, 08:56 AM	#18
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	The lack of 24/25p is an issue for many. You can only record 12 minutes or so per clip. Ergonomics can be solved to some degree with a shoulder rig and Hoodloupe or Z-Finder - if that fits your style of shooting. In any case, good stabilization is critical. The camera doesn't support good sound out of the box - there are no XLR inputs and automatic level control is always on. The sound can be improved greatly with the Magic Lantern firmware and a clean active preamp, such as the juicedLink CX 231. Alternatively, use an external recorder, like the H4n, and sync to the built-in-mic audio of the 5D2. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 7th, 2009, 10:55 AM	#21
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Jon is quite right, of course. The 5D2 does indeed shot at 30p, and not 29.97. The file headers are not being mis-written. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 7th, 2009, 08:04 PM	#22
Steve Lewis Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Goleta, CA Posts: 233	Okay, I've made up my mind, I am buying the 5DMkII. Now, could someone (Jon) just tell me point blank: which audio device do I buy? Juicelink, Beachtek or H4n? (I already have the AT897) Thanks so much for helping me make this decision guys! -Steve __________________ www.spreefilms.com - Give me a museum and I'll fill it!

July 7th, 2009, 08:37 PM	#23
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Well, I'll still give you a choice... Do you want to run a one man show and not have to mess with sync in post? Get the juicedLink and run the Magic Lantern firmware. Of the combinations that I've tested, it's got the lowest noise and is amazingly crisp. The only downside of the sound is that it can be a touch harsh, but that's partly because we're used to transients being smeared. On the other hand, maybe you have a sound guy who wants to run untethered. Or you want to rig up an inteview, but don't have the cash for a wireless kit. Maybe you want to do a candid camera stunt with a long lens and want to hide the microphone in the flower bed near the victim. In that case, get the Zoom. It's nearly as quiet as the JL/ML, though not as crisp and detailed. And maybe the $50 price difference is significant. Then get the JL. Also, if you want to record really subtle stuff, like birds in the distance, get the JL. So, the juicedLink has the edge in sound, price and time in post, but if the independence of the H4n is valuable for your shooting style, then consider it instead. Both solutions deliver professional-worthy audio at a prosumer price. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

July 4th, 2009, 11:09 PM	#16
Laffan Nasser Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Doha Posts: 58	Hello Folks I have Canon XHA1 and Sony EX1 , I'm thinking of getting the 5D Mark II , my concern is if I get this DSLR my both camcorders will be on shelf. Please stop me and tell me DSLR has limitation producing HD video versus my camcorders. What I like on 5D Mark II is the depth of field.

July 5th, 2009, 07:44 AM	#17
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	The MkII is a great cam, but in my opinion it does not replace a video-cam. I have an EX3 and a few others as well as my mkII. I use the EX3 about 90% of the time. Of course it depends on what you are shooting for. I see the mkII as a great added tool with lots of advantages, DOF lots of great lenses for not much money, great low light capabilities. But it has terrible ergonomics is very hard to focus (it is a still camera and a great one at that), sound is pretty much unusable. Serious problems with thin horizontal lines. Only shoots 30p (not 29.97 even), no timecode. Codec produces lots of noise in high contrast sand sharp focus shots. There are ways do deal with those problems, but it is a lot of extra work. I still love the mkII, it can get shots you cant get with a small chip video cam, but I would never consider to use it as my only cam. Read these threads: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...-problems.html http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/canon-eos...-concerns.html And search this and other forums for more discussions.