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Old July 12th, 2009, 05:34 AM   #1
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5D Mark II Workflow (Sticky Proposal)

I've read a lot of threads and searched high and low for the definitive workflow for 5D Mark II clips (on the MAC). I have seen videos/write-ups discussing MPEG Streamclip, Compressor, Cinema Tools, Cineform and other apps. I have seen articles about transcoding to ProRes, XDCAM EX and other formats. I have seen posts discussing changing the frame rate to 29.97 vs. changing the timeline in your NLE to 30.00 to accommodate the 5D2 footage.

Can somebody give use a clear, step by step understanding of how we should be handling the footage from the 5DMkII: from offload all the way through exporting from the NLE (say Final Cut Pro, for example)? I (and many others, I think) would greatly appreciate a detailed rundown of how to handle post in the 5D2 "world."

I understand that much of this information is already on this forum and other websites, the issue is that I am conflicted as to which workflow I should be using for professional work and I think that making a purely post/editing sticky for the 5D2 is a good idea for the DVinfo community.

Thank you very much!
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Old July 12th, 2009, 08:35 AM   #2
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I agree

I heartily endorse this idea. I am on the PC side, and have been reading many posts here, and while there are many good suggestions, I don't see any consensus or agreement about the best workflow, software, or practices. I realize there are many options depending on platform and software, but surely there are some people who have a workable solution and it would be great if one or more of these could give a step by step workflow.

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Old July 12th, 2009, 12:11 PM   #3
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How about we just thow out a few workflows and discuss the pro/cons of each?

Personally, I just started editing 5D stuff, but what I am doing it importing from cf card, then using the remaster program in NeoHD (cineform)(In the remaster settings, im using "limit YUV on 5d".) and then bringing the .mov clip to FCP on my macpro.

In FCP, ive changed settings now a few times from advice on here and 5dcinema forum, and dont have enough time with either setting to see which is the better solution.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #4
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Here's what I do on the PC using Vegas:

1) Copy the MOV files to a removable hard drive.
a) If I need to format my cards, copy the MOV files to the local hard drive as well
2) Process the files with NeoScene to the local hard drive.
3) Copy the NeoScene files to the removable hard drive as a backup.
4) Edit in Vegas
a) on a 29.97 timeline
b) on a 23.976 timeline by slowing the clips down to 0.8 speed.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 03:53 PM   #5
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I am used to working with HDV. So I drop all my 5D Mark II files onto an HDV time line in Final Cut Pro, render everything, and export with original HDV settings. This gives me an HDV file that I import back and edit smoothly. The aspect ratio doesn't change, and the footage still looks very good. Can anyone tell me what is the downside of doing it this way?

I tried converting the 5D Mark II footage into Pro Res 422, but increases the size about 5 times.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 04:17 PM   #6
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My workflow's pretty straightforward:

1. Offload from CF to hard drive
2. Batch convert to ProRes (standard, not HQ) in MPEG Streamclip
3. Edit in FCP - 30 or 29.97 is personal preference, FCP seems to automatically conform seamlessly between them.

Now I'm primarily working with the H4n for sound and that introduces a couple minor extra steps:

3. Edit in FCP using a custom easy setup with a 30 fps timebase - this eliminates any sync issues between the 5D & H4n audio, and as long as you start with this when you import stuff you can change your sequence timebase to whatever you want. Details on the Pluraleyes blog: 25 Hour Day: DSLR Dual-System Audio: The 99.9% Solution
4. Throw all the audio & video clips on one timeline and run Pluraleyes to auto sync them.

Not much else to it than that.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #7
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how is QTpro?

Ive been using Quicktime pro 7 to import and export a qt move file. Is this really bad? I;m doing this way because my compressor program is not working and haven't had the time to do a deep research on this.

Is using Quicktime pro to convert a big lost in quality?

I export to DVCPROHD 720, to mix with my HVX200a

thanks
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Old July 12th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #8
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I'm on PC side. I have a directory on a terabyte drive that I call capture. I drop all my files into a subfile named for the particular project. I then convert those files as needed for my project to the Cineform codec using NeoScene. NeoScene converts to a 29.97 rate. NeoScene is Cineforms low end convertor program, but it does a fanastic job as an intermedieate codec. I edit in Vegas on a 30p time line, rendering a final Cineform file as my master for render to other formats as needed.

Edit: As pointed out by Ivan below, NeoScene is in 29.97, and I should be saying I use a 29.97 time line. The preset I selected I think says HD30P, but I make sure it actually is set up in 29.97.
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Old July 12th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan Donn View Post

Now I'm primarily working with the H4n for sound and that introduces a couple minor extra steps:

3. Edit in FCP using a custom easy setup with a 30 fps timebase - this eliminates any sync issues between the 5D & H4n audio, and as long as you start with this when you import stuff you can change your sequence timebase to whatever you want. Details on the Pluraleyes blog: 25 Hour Day: DSLR Dual-System Audio: The 99.9% Solution


Not much else to it than that.
What I don't understand about that tutorial is that the zoom h4n records at a different format than 44.1 kHz right? So, even if the 5d is 44.1, why wouldn't you set the audio parameters in FCP to match the audio coming off the H4n?
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Old July 12th, 2009, 07:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Lewis View Post
What I don't understand about that tutorial is that the zoom h4n records at a different format than 44.1 kHz right? So, even if the 5d is 44.1, why wouldn't you set the audio parameters in FCP to match the audio coming off the H4n?
Actually you would - there's a note to that effect in the tutorial now as a result of several comments on the post. So you can set your sequence preset to 48/16 or 96/24 depending on what you choose to record on the H4n. All that really matters though, in terms of sync, is getting the right timebase in your easy setup, as that seems to change the way FCP interprets the audio on import so that it retains the correct duration.
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Old July 13th, 2009, 02:30 AM   #11
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It would probably be a good idea to split this thread into separate ones for Mac & Windows as conversion to ProRes is not an option for Windows users. Different Windows programs will have different workflows too.

We too bulk convert to ProRes using MPEG Streamclip. It is the easiest CODEC to work with in FCP & large files sizes for temporary files shouldn't be of any concern given that hard disk prices are so cheap nowadays.
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Old July 13th, 2009, 03:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
NeoScene converts to a 29.97 rate... I edit in Vegas on a 30p time line...
I thought that the footage and timeline frame rates should match. Why do you choose 30p over 29,97 timeline? Doesn't this cause sound sync issues?
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Old July 13th, 2009, 08:27 AM   #13
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How I do it

In FCP I create a pro res sequence.

*Sequence > Settings > Apple Pro Res422(HQ) 1920x1080 30p 48Hz ..... keep timebase 29.97
*Import Files > Select 5D Clips that I dragged and dropped/copied into appropriate file for project
*Import other media to appropriate bins ( my case EX1 footage )

* Drag footage from both 5D and EX into same timeline and OPTION R
* Go on vacation for a few
* Come back and cut
* Export QT movie same settings
* Add file in Compressor with my flavor of settings for DVD and VIOLA!

It works great for me this way but transitions and color correction etc take longer to render the 5D footage than the EX.

This is my own homegrown way to do it and would LOVE to be corrected but I, like the OP got a bits and pieces from all over and just did it this way. As I said it works but if there is a more efficient way it would be great to read.

Last edited by Mike Williams; July 13th, 2009 at 08:28 AM. Reason: time base note
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Old July 13th, 2009, 09:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kogan View Post
I am used to working with HDV. So I drop all my 5D Mark II files onto an HDV time line in Final Cut Pro, render everything, and export with original HDV settings. This gives me an HDV file that I import back and edit smoothly. The aspect ratio doesn't change, and the footage still looks very good. Can anyone tell me what is the downside of doing it this way?

I tried converting the 5D Mark II footage into Pro Res 422, but increases the size about 5 times.
I completed a corporate project recently where I mixed XH-A1 footage (shot in 30p mode) with footage from the 5DmkII. I got excellent results in regards to sync and quality simply rendering out the 5D content to HDV 30 (@ 29.97).

The obvious downside is HDV compression and the loss of horizontal resolution (native 1920 vs 1440 anamorphic). However, despite the loss of res I absolutely could NOT see a loss of quality in the footage. Even viewing the same frame from the same clip comparing the original 5DmkII file and the converted HDV 30p file. PS I was using hair follicles on someone's head to help detect any loss in image quality. Even though on paper it doesn't make sense- I saw absolutely NO difference.

So, obviously, I'm not sold on the Pro-Res route. I think it's unnecessary to be working with such large files. Then....if you have to work with multiple streams of Pro-Res (multicam) you'll be in a world of hurt unless you have a fast raid disc array.
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Old July 13th, 2009, 10:24 AM   #15
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I am creating a series of 5d workflow tutorials.

Part 1 is linked below

Philip Bloom Canon 5dMkII Tutorials
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