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Old July 23rd, 2009, 06:30 PM   #1
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Frame-rate adjustment: could someone please provide an original 5DII mov?

Dear all,

while trying to fix Tramm's file from the other thread I came accross something very interesting for those editing the Canon 5DII Files on PC.

I will post my results and a little software tool as soon as I have verified my findings.

In order to test what I found, I would need a 5 to 10 second original 5DII file recording sound of someone speaking while showing their face (so I can check lip synch). These files are comparatively small (25-50 mb). You can actually upload mov files with up to 47 mb here as an attachment, although please use that as last resort so that we do not stretch the DVi bandwidth too far.

Thanks in advance,

Thomas
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 08:23 PM   #2
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Hey Thomas,

It's not the greatest clip in the world, but it meets the requirements of what you're looking for and I already have it uploaded so here you go:

http://www.rpmproductions.info/video...ght_test_1.mov

It's a "no-light" test that I did of my buddy when I first got the cam.
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 10:05 PM   #3
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Thomas:

I can provide another if you need it. But I suspect you are looking at something Cineform is already adjusting for, conforming sound and video to 29.97...
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Old July 24th, 2009, 03:47 PM   #4
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Results

Ryan,

thanks a lot for the clip.

Chris,

not quite. While trying to fix Tramm's broken mov clip I found where the framerate setting is stored inside the file. I would like to come back to your offer as I need a file with speech straight out of the cam.


My Results:
I did a few tests and built a really simple tool to change the timebase (see attached ZIP file and screenshot).

You choose overcranked 24p and 25p, undercranked 48p and 50p as well as simple 30p to 24p/25p conversion by frame dropping. The frame dropping is handled entirely by quicktime. The idea is you can pick for every clip which setting is best for dropping it into a 24p timeline.
For regular movements (e.g. cars driving), pick overcrank or undercrank depending whether you want it 20% slower or 60% faster. For tripod-shot talking heads, lip-synch or irregular movements just pick drop frames. The tool takes a few seconds to create the re-timed copy.

From my tests I have found that in original 5DII files the sound stays kind-of in synch. Unfortunately Ryans file is not a file straight out of the cam. In Ryan's file the synch just breaks.

PCs only for now, sorry Mac. Of course those with After Effects can change the timebase there, but maybe you still find this little tool helpful.
Warning: Early alpha - it works well on my PC but no warranty of any kind. Do not use on important clips yet.

Enjoy,

Thomas
Attached Thumbnails
Frame-rate adjustment: could someone please provide an original 5DII mov?-timebase-changing-tool-screenshot.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: zip Mov Timebase Rewriter.zip (6.2 KB, 226 views)
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Old July 24th, 2009, 03:54 PM   #5
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The file is actually straight out of the cam. Does the fact that it was shot pre-software upgrade make a difference in what you are seeing possibly?
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Old July 24th, 2009, 03:59 PM   #6
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Hi Ryan,

the file I got is a quicktime but it has a different structure from the straight out of Cam mov files and 1630 by 917 resolution. Did I download the correct file?

Thomas
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Old July 24th, 2009, 04:17 PM   #7
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I tried to upload a 37 meg file to the server here, but won't let me. Send me a PM and I can send by YouSendit.com
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Old July 24th, 2009, 04:59 PM   #8
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Chris,

got the files. Thank you.
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Old July 24th, 2009, 05:02 PM   #9
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Thomas,

I just figured out what happened. I trimmed the clip and then saved it in QT! Oops, sorry about that. So no, it was not straight out of the cam. Let me know if you are able to get the clip from Chris. If not, I will upload a different one real quick.

Ry
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Old July 24th, 2009, 11:13 PM   #10
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I sent a couple off to him by YouSendit.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 12:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
PCs only for now, sorry Mac.
If I understand correctly what this tool does then we Mac users can already do the same thing by conforming in Cinema Tools.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 02:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
Ryan,

thanks a lot for the clip.

Chris,

not quite. While trying to fix Tramm's broken mov clip I found where the framerate setting is stored inside the file. I would like to come back to your offer as I need a file with speech straight out of the cam.


My Results:
I did a few tests and built a really simple tool to change the timebase (see attached ZIP file and screenshot).

You choose overcranked 24p and 25p, undercranked 48p and 50p as well as simple 30p to 24p/25p conversion by frame dropping. The frame dropping is handled entirely by quicktime. The idea is you can pick for every clip which setting is best for dropping it into a 24p timeline.
For regular movements (e.g. cars driving), pick overcrank or undercrank depending whether you want it 20% slower or 60% faster. For tripod-shot talking heads, lip-synch or irregular movements just pick drop frames. The tool takes a few seconds to create the re-timed copy.

From my tests I have found that in original 5DII files the sound stays kind-of in synch. Unfortunately Ryans file is not a file straight out of the cam. In Ryan's file the synch just breaks.

PCs only for now, sorry Mac. Of course those with After Effects can change the timebase there, but maybe you still find this little tool helpful.
Warning: Early alpha - it works well on my PC but no warranty of any kind. Do not use on important clips yet.

Enjoy,

Thomas
Thomas:

I took a 5 minute piece, ran it through and the sound track isn't even close. Not sure what is going on.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 06:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
If I understand correctly what this tool does then we Mac users can already do the same thing by conforming in Cinema Tools.
Nigel,

exactly right. I don't own a Mac, don't have Final Cut and I don't have After Effects. I was struggeling to change the timebase in the tools I had so I built my own. Maybe there are others in my situation that may find this helpful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Thomas:

I took a 5 minute piece, ran it through and the sound track isn't even close. Not sure what is going on.
Chris,

thanks so much for the clips. It was late in Europe last night when I got them, so I only did some sound synch tests today. Undercranked means the sound goes totally out of synch, overcranked seems to work (at least in my workflow using TMPG Enc to re-encode into something editable). However, this means a pitch change that makes anyone sound like Mickey Mouse.
Framedropping again stays in synch for me but this may again be due to my workflow and not be true for others.

So for now this little tool is very limited framerate setting changer with no guarantee for synch audio.

Hope some may still find it useful.

Thomas
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