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Old August 14th, 2009, 12:57 PM   #1
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5dM2 + JuicedLink 213 + Magic Lantern - problem

Hi all

I just did an audio test with my soundman last night, and had some weirdness we can't figure out yet.

We ran into a problem getting isolated L and R channels -

the setup:

running a lav and boom mic into a mixer (sound devices 442–providing power to the mics, and line out to the juicedlink)
running out of the mixer into the juicedlink (Trim High, Gain High, Phantom off, Line input selected)
out of the juicedlink into the 5dM2 using the Magic Lantern Firmware 0.1.6 (w/ AGC off, analog gain on to 17dB, digital gain to 0dB)

we are sending the boom mic through pot 1 panned left and any wires through 2 3 and 4 panned right - we tried the reverse as well.

we are able to get the lav (left channel) and the boom (right channel) as a mono sound with the PAN switch to center.

we are unable to get separate channels though - IE setting the Lav to Left and the Boom to Right - we don't get sound on both channels independently.

----
we're going to try and break everything down to it's simplest configuration and isolate each piece of equipment.

any suggestions?



thanks in advance

andy batt
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Old August 14th, 2009, 01:27 PM   #2
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Andy,

I haven't had any such problem with the CX231. Breaking it down to isolate the problem is the right idea. Make sure that the 1/8" plug is all the way in on both.

So, will you be participating in the 48-hour project in Portland this weekend?
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Old August 14th, 2009, 01:28 PM   #3
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Andy:

First, is this actually happening in recording. Remember if you are just monitoring with an Earphone plugged into AV out, you will only monitor one channel.

Second, as I recall, I had to be sure camera itself was getting mic level feed.... not line level. Check that out.

Now, If I am mixing out of a mixer, I would probably take the Juiced Link down to lower settings and let the mixer do the level adjustments. I have an Sing ENG44, and in a field mixer situation I would probably just feed through my non-amped Beachtek XLR adapter.

By the way, at least with my ENG 44, I am not getting complete channel isolation. It seems the three position pan switches only cut down the channel in put from one channel or other. I noticed this when I was feeding a tone to the ENG44 to deactivate the AGC in the 5D. I don't know if the Pre works that way too.
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Old August 14th, 2009, 02:06 PM   #4
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@Jon - yep! Good luck to your team!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Andy:
First, is this actually happening in recording. Remember if you are just monitoring with an Earphone plugged into AV out, you will only monitor one channel.
for monitoring duties - I have the AV cable plugged in, and the stereo outputs (RCA) patched to a female mini stereo (1/8th) for headphone monitor.

we were using the level meters in the 0.1.6 ML release for our confirmation of LEFT and RIGHT channels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
Second, as I recall, I had to be sure camera itself was getting mic level feed.... not line level. Check that out.
So the switches (on the JuicedLink) should be set to MIC instead of LINE - IE that switch is to be set regarding the camera side, not the mixer/mic side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
By the way, at least with my ENG 44, I am not getting complete channel isolation. It seems the three position pan switches only cut down the channel in put from one channel or other. I noticed this when I was feeding a tone to the ENG44 to deactivate the AGC in the 5D. I don't know if the Pre works that way too.
So you can't truly send MIC A to the LEFT and MIC B to the RIGHT?

-andy

Last edited by Andy Batt; August 14th, 2009 at 02:07 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old August 14th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Batt View Post
@Jon - yep! Good luck to your team!
Thanks! We're registered under the full name for P3Pictures: "Poorly Projected Pictures"

Two years ago we did a lovestory heist under the genre, Musical.
Colonel Crush - Heart Break Break In

Three years ago, we did a McCarthyesqe piece under Historical Fiction.
Colonel Crush - Us and Them

Those were shot with a Panasonic GS500. This year's film should look better. :)

So, which team are you with?

Best of luck!
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Old August 15th, 2009, 12:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post

Those were shot with a Panasonic GS500. This year's film should look better. :)

So, which team are you with?

Best of luck!
Hey Jon - we're the Cinema Syndicate (Cinema Syndicate)
We got the sound working - will post details later after the weekend ;-)

-andy
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Old August 17th, 2009, 05:02 PM   #7
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So the key issue seems to be MIC level vs. LINE level

On the JuicedLink, the microswitches seem to be for the downstream side - IE the camera side. The 5dM2 seems to want MIC level, and not LINE.

Regarding the CENTER/L/R issues, I think we had an odd mixer issue that went away with a fresh teardown and replug of the audio gear.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 02:29 AM   #8
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So, Andy, what mic(s) did you use? Were you happy with the results?

It's nice not having to sync, when you only have 48 hours!
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Old August 18th, 2009, 12:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
So, Andy, what mic(s) did you use? Were you happy with the results?

It's nice not having to sync, when you only have 48 hours!
I had two different soundmixers - so not sure on which mic's were used - they both fed the juicedlink out of their mixers. Generally a directional boom mic was used and one or two wireless lavalieres. My soundmixers used some different techniques - one interesting technique was to send the boom mic separately into the Left and Right channels, with the Left a 'hotter' level and the Right a 'cooler' level - that way softly spoken dialog is picked up easily on the Left and shouted dialog is kept in the green on the Right.

We did have to do a pickup shot at the end without a soundmixer - we just plugged a boom and lav directly into the juicedlink - and the sound quality definitely suffered.

I know once we go in and do our 'directors cut' we can do a lot of work to sweeten the sound - it's the hardest thing to get done IMHO - we edit up until the last possible second.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 04:35 PM   #10
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I know once we go in and do our 'directors cut' we can do a lot of work to sweeten the sound - it's the hardest thing to get done IMHO - we edit up until the last possible second.
I second that! Why is it that people take their sweet time when deciding what to do and goof around when writing? And then, the first shots at each new location can take time before we get our momentum. By the time I get a locked edit to compose to, I'm like a hamster on a motorized, accelerating wheel. More time for composing, and another couple hours for audio sweetening would be amazing.

Of course, the worst part is rendering - especially on a PC. We rendered to uncompressed AVI and then used Quicktime to render the DV MOV, just to ensure compatibility. Sure, it gives you a chance to take a quick shower or get a bite to eat, but watching the progress bar is nerve wracking! From the hills north of Camas, we have a 40 minute drive to the location, which is no less stressful.

But, hey, I wouldn't miss it for the world. :)
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Old August 18th, 2009, 07:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Of course, the worst part is rendering - especially on a PC.
We edited on an 8 core mac tower with 14gb of ram - definitely made the difference. We also edited pre-rendered footage - essentially we created MPEG2 files of all the selected cuts - our render times were about 1:30 for each minute of playback - we then dropped into Encore for DVD making.

Check out my workflow post in this forum

-andy
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Old March 4th, 2010, 06:57 PM   #12
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Left channel issue

So, my output from the Juice box is all good (L goes to L, R goes to Right), I check this by headphones plugged into the output jack on the box (with a Bostaroo).

And my camera (running ML) when set to INT it shows levels on the L and R channel when I rub the on-camera mic (and I can hear both channels when I hook up the A/V jack to a mixer with stereo split).

But when the ML is set to EXT, I only see the Right channel meter bouncing, even when the input on the Juice box is set to center.

Anyone have this issue?

Either my cable (that came with the Juice box) is bad, OR ML is not seeing the L channel on the stereo cable sending signal to the mic input on the camera.

Help!?
:-)
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