24/25/30 on the 5D Mark II? Should I dare hope?

[Yang Wen]

Originally Posted by Roberto Lanczos

Best script ever.
wonderfull jop capturing the inner frustration of the 5d owners.

every single word perfectly matched my deepest feelings.
decided to go the 5d+Shake route just 4 days ago, and now this?

i wanna shot my self in the face.

i've come to the conclusion that this is not about whether 24p is possible or not in the 5D.
i think canon is really making fun of us. this is clearly an insult. a slap in the face.
But that's the marketing game.... that's the way it is.
more money... what the hell.

For each person like you who committed to the 5D2 just before the announcement of the 7D, there will be many more who have been on the fence and are happy about the 7D announcement. Canon is not making fun of you. Canon doesn't even know you exist. The world doesn't revolve around a small number of people.

[Dan Brockett]

"i wanna shot my self in the face."

If you are serious, get help now.

If not, you are a drama queen.

Dan

[Chris Hurd]

It's just a camera.

And it's not something you're married to... buy it, use it, sell it, buy something else, repeat process as often as desired. Properly cared for and with original packaging kept intact, the used market will return a very good price for your gear resulting in a relatively small cost to change out cameras. You end up paying only for the time you use it, which is a bargain considering what you can accomplish with it.

There are plenty of people out there just waiting to give you money for your used gear.

[Phil Bloom]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Ack... that particular scene from Downfall has been done over with every last recent camera / computer / movie release that watching it is starting to feel like getting RickRolled. Sorry Phil, it was funny the first time somebody did that (whoever and whenever it was, so long ago it seems), but these days... stick a fork in it; it's done.

Bruno Ganz should get royalties every time one of these pops up, they're so ubiquitous these days!

Bit grumpy aren't we Chris? You didn't ever smirk once?! A lot of people have had a good laugh from it so it's job is done! You are also assuming everyone has seen the Downfall skit done before. I only saw my first one last week, I know a bit slow of me! :-)

[Nick Csakany]

I liked that Downfall bit, Phil. I thought it was hilarious.

Now, on to the 5D, I agree with Chris in that it's only a camera. As much as I'd love native 24p on it, I'm also content in converting footage in NeoScene before editing. Yeah, it's an extra step, but I'll manage. And if Canon will release a firmware update for the 5D bringing those frame rates, even better. I'll continue enjoying the camera for what it does.

Nick

[Phil Bloom]

Hey Nick

how are you using neoscene to convert?

Phil

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

You didn't ever smirk once?!

Okay Phil -- I watched it after I posted, and I take it back. As often as I've seen mash-ups of that particular clip, I'll admit that yours is indeed the best / funniest one I've seen. So... hugz and cheers, and I hope it's the last one of those I ever watch (because your subtitles would be heard to beat and I'm really worn out on that thing anyway).

Here's one for you: Hitler is informed about the Hitler Downfall Parodies (language warning)

And yes! I'm always grumpy! Send me your Mr. Mean t-shirt when you're done with it.

[Nick Csakany]

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Hey Nick

how are you using neoscene to convert?

Phil

Phil,

I think I was unintentionally confusing. I'm converting from 30p to 29.97 in neoscene, and I will post in Vegas. Native Canon file editing in Vegas is very choppy. Neoscene will not get me to 24p, at least not from the 5D2 footage.

Depeding on the material, I might use a 24p timeline, but there can be some rather visible blending and stutter. I've heard a better conversion may be done in AfterEffects, but I've never used it.

Nick

[Evan Donn]

Originally Posted by Yang Wen

For each person like you who committed to the 5D2 just before the announcement of the 7D, there will be many more who have been on the fence and are happy about the 7D announcement. Canon is not making fun of you. Canon doesn't even know you exist. The world doesn't revolve around a small number of people.

And for everyone who's been on the fence until now, there's someone like me who got the 5D on day 1. That's what, 10-11 months now? In that time I've shot four non-commercial short films on it (two docs, two fictional pieces). I've also shot over a dozen short interviews for a client on the camera, which paid for the body several times over. I'm shooting more interviews for them tomorrow. Tomorrow night I'm shooting a short promo for my gym in trade for my membership, which works out to nearly the same cost as the 5D body. In other words, just between the 7D announcement and the end of this week the 5D will already have more than paid for itself - again - and assuming the 7D ships at the end of September I'm pretty sure it will do so at least once more in the meantime based on projects I have lined up. The 5D was a tax write-off for my business last year, so really my out-of-pocket cost for the body was less than $2k - which means I probably won't actually lose any money if I decide the 7D is a better choice and sell the 5D. Plus any money I've spent on lenses and accessories carries over to the new body. Realistically the odds are higher that I'll just get the 7D body and keep the 5D.

I wouldn't buy a camera that I wasn't sure would pay for itself in six months or less. If you can't make a calculation like that this isn't the camera for you, even if you really, really want it. I'd really like a Red One, but I can't make the numbers work without working a lot more than I want to, so I don't waste my time worrying about it.

Now that's just the stuff I can put a clear $ value on - it doesn't count the more intangible benefits to having had the 5D for nearly a year now. For instance I've been shooting a lot more photos since I got it, and it's definitely raised my interest in the photography side of things. I shot some nice ones at a 4th of July picnic and a friend really liked them - so she asked if I could do some photography for her business. Now the rest of the stuff I mentioned above I could have shot on my XHA1 and it would have been ok - not as good as the 5D in my opinion, but not bad. But shooting with the XHA1 wouldn't get me the opportunity to shoot photos for her business. Did I mention that business is lingerie?

[Nick Csakany]

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

Did I mention that business is lingerie?

Saved the best part for last, eh, Evan? :-)

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Hey Nick

how are you using neoscene to convert?

Phil

I am not Nick, but I have experimented and used NeoScene/Cineform to convert on the PC side. I actually tried to use it like you folks on the FC/Mac side were doing. I don't remember exact process, but I recall laying originally reencoded (NeoScene turns it to 29.97) footage, and changing the playback rate to 24 frames per second. I rendered that in Vegas using the Cineform codec still, and went from there trying to follow your method in FC. I recall getting decent results, but I have not played with it that much. It would be interesting to try that to compare some of your results, using the same footage. I would be willing to try to match something you have done if you want to post some raw footage.

NeoScene also has a check box in it to reencode to 24p by removing pull down at the time of capture. David Newman does not recommend its use with 5D footage. I have tried that to convert with NeoScene to 24p out of the gate. I have had mixed results there.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

Bit grumpy aren't we Chris?

Of course Chris is grumpy. His 5D doesn't have 24p either. ;)

And now he has to put up with even more emotional posts on DVInfo about 24p when all he really wants is for people to discuss the technology and techniques of filmmaking. :) :) :)

[Chris Hurd]

Geez, am I that easy to read?

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Raymond Tsang

Probably a stupid question but would shooting video from a cropped DSLR sensor result in degraded/lower quality versus a FF sensor (i.e. mkii)?

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I seriously doubt it, Raymond. It has to be knocked down to 1920 x 1080 anyway, so why should it matter what size chip it comes from...

Well, I'd like to see a low-light A/B-test between the two. (I suspect that I know the outcome ;^)

-- peer

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Geez, am I that easy to read?

On the part about wanting DVInfo to be about filmmaking technology and techniques? Crystal clear. :)

It's all good. Later this month when the new 5D2 firmware is announced (fingers crossed), this will be the happiest forum on the web. The new big topic will be people fretting over whether to part with $2,700 for full frame or $1,700 for a crop sensor.

(Until Magic Lantern or equivalent is available on the 7D, the decision is simple. ;) )