Canon announces free 24p / 25p update for EOS 5D Mk. II

Elliot Smith · January 11th, 2010, 04:13 PM

Hi all, I rarely post, but I figure I should share what I've been told. I've been researching the 5D a lot lately, and am eagerly awaiting the 24p firmware (I shoot stills and video). I've been hesitant to drop the money on one until the firmware comes out, just in case it ends up not happening, but now I'm sure enough it will.

I was out at CES over the weekend, and on Saturday I went to the Canon booth and asked one of the reps who called himself a "junior tech" or something to that effect (he's new, basically) what was up with the 24p update, and is it actually happening? He said it's 99% likely that it will come out and that a guest at CES had brought him a new 5DmkII that had already had the firmware from the factory, and he claimed (not me, I didn't even ask about this) that it had 720p60 as well. He said that Canon would release the firmware in new cameras from the factory before it was made available online, which he claimed should happen soon. Not a lot of specifics beyond that. I asked if he was sure it was a 5DmkII and not a 7D that he saw (since he seemed green), and he said he was sure it was a 5DmkII.

Naturally since he's new I want confirmation, so I went back and asked someone else on Sunday. This guy (I got his card, it's not with me at the moment, I didn't ask if he wanted me giving his name out - so I won't, wasn't thinking about posting here at the time) claimed his specialty was both the video cameras and the stills with video. We talked about the limitations of the HDV format as well as the audio and other limitations of shooting on the 5D. Anyway, he said that the 24p update was going to be coming out, he claimed he didn't know many details about it like release date or anything, though. He doubted that it would enable Audio Gain Control, and reccommended a mixer and just getting scratch audio off the 5D. Oddly enough I overheard him talking to another rep that another guest with a lot of questions should check out DV Info to get an understanding of the benefits and limitations of the 5D for video. So props to you all.

Last week I called Canon USA to ask about the same thing, they told me they couldn't say anything because they didn't know, though that they were probably not out of line with what I had heard from the UK and Australian press releases.

The reps were pretty open with me, I didn't press them for any answers, I just asked casually. I didn't present myself as press although I had a badge, but as an interested potential customer, which is the case.

I appreciate you all as an info source for helping me make this decision, and I just thought you all should hear this. I can't vouch for the validity of any of this, but everything I wrote is how it happened, and I hope to pay you back by contributing what I can.

James Miller · January 12th, 2010, 12:59 AM

That's great info Elliot,

I notice at ParkCameras (UK) that the 5DMk2 now lists bare and kit versions "Available whilst stock lasts". Does this mean they are awaiting new models with built in updated firmware I wonder.

Eric Diosay · January 17th, 2010, 02:50 PM

Still waiting on the firmware, too. I have had the chance to play with the video capabilities of my new 5D and I am remarkably impressed. The small form factor and the ability to get it into tight spaces makes for a great kit especially for my needs.

I'm currently working on building a rig that will be modular so that I can shoot on a tripod, shoulder mounted or suction mounted. Now all I need is the firmware to make this my number one cam =)

Dom Stevenson · January 20th, 2010, 05:41 PM

I'm seriously fed up with waiting for this update, having almost driven myself insane doing the 30 - 25 frame rate conversion in Compressor more times than i care to remember.
16 hours for an 8 minutes film. In fact i've considered trading it in for a 7d.

A Canon rep at a trade show in London before Xmas told me to expect it "at the end of January", while another one was less committal, with the official Canon announcement of "first half of 2010".

Let's hope the first guy proves to be right.

Elliot Smith · January 21st, 2010, 12:55 AM

I'm with you, I'm ready for it to come out. My impression is that it's right around the corner, which is enough for me to justify ordering it, which I just did (expecting it tomorrow!), though with some apprehension.
Based on what I heard, I'd guess it should be out around the same timeframe, i.e. within the next month or so (unless something goes wrong in testing). I have little doubt that it is coming. I considered the 7D, but I saw a stills comparison and the 5D is noticeably better, at least as far as noise, but other IQ reasons too. Plus I've wanted a full frame still camera for a years, enough to put off buying a DSLR, and if I waited this long I may as well get what I've been waiting for. It's too bad wide motion picture lenses won't fit, que sera sera.

I'm kind of wondering what other tweaks may be involved in addition to 24p. Zebra bars? Reduction in Moire pattern issues? Who knows?

Matthew Roddy · January 21st, 2010, 11:49 AM

Not only am I oh-so-very-much looking forward to the 24p thing (and hopefully 720/60p), but if they could reduce the moire, I'd pretty much have to marry the camera.

I just edited a bit last night were a woman's wool dress and nylons moire'd so badly, I couldn't use the shot. Ended up using an alternative where the camera was at a different distance and only they nylons "danced" for a moment or two.

I'm not a pixel counter, but still, sometimes it drives ya nuts.

Chris Hurd · January 21st, 2010, 11:52 AM

I reckon they'll have to release it before NAB (this April), otherwise they'll get flogged on the show floor.

Daniel Browning · January 21st, 2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Roddy

[...] if they could reduce the moire, I'd pretty much have to marry the camera.

Me too. I don't think they'll address the DSLR moire issues any time in the next few years, but I've got my hopes up for 2014.

Chris Barcellos · January 21st, 2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Roddy

Not only am I oh-so-very-much looking forward to the 24p thing (and hopefully 720/60p), but if they could reduce the moire, I'd pretty much have to marry the camera.

I just edited a bit last night were a woman's wool dress and nylons moire'd so badly, I couldn't use the shot. Ended up using an alternative where the camera was at a different distance and only they nylons "danced" for a moment or two.

I'm not a pixel counter, but still, sometimes it drives ya nuts.

I am curious if you guys have done any testing with combinations of a low sharpness setting in your cameras, coupled with a conversion to cineform, and reintroduction of sharpness after the conversion. Does that help with moire or aliasing reduction ?

Jon Fairhurst · January 21st, 2010, 12:29 PM

Agreed. A few of us asked about the new firmware at CES, but at NAB it would look like feeding time in the piranha tank!

Overall, Canon has been pretty smart about the 5D2 firmware - releasing just enough to get what they need. Manual firmware made Canon lenses - and IS - valuable for video. The 24/25p announcement kept the 5D2 strong through the holiday sales season. The price drop helps post-Christmas sales. Now, Canon needs to follow up on the 24/25p promise.

I'm hopeful that the new firmware will match the features of the 7D/1D4, namely that we will get 1080/23.976, 1080/25, 1080/29.97, 720/50, and 720/59.97 as well as HD out during recording to help with manual focusing. Why would they do that? Simply to put the firmware to bed. As long as the 5D2 is lacking compared to its sisters, Canon will hear nagging and discontent. Make the three cameras the same, and Canon has a strong lineup with consistent advantages and disadvantages. Canon can easily say that any new features won't be introduced until the next generation of products.

Fingers crossed for 720p and HD out during recording. And, yes, it should be in our hands before April.

Matthew Roddy · January 21st, 2010, 06:58 PM

HD Out! Yes! I forgot about that. If the camera had that and defeated AGC, well, what comes after marriage...? Hmm... Never mind. That's just gross.

Chris B, No I haven't tried dropping the Sharpness yet. I am, however, editing in Cineform.
This project was shot last Sept, as I recall. Anyway, it was before the mighty "Manual Controls Firmware Update." And it was my second shoot with the camera to boot. So my shots are all different exposures and settings. Fortunately I had learned enough to be JUST barely clever enough to know how to fake lock the ISO.

So that will be my next test, dropping down the contrast and Sharpness to see what happens - but that's for another thread.

Billy Griffin · January 25th, 2010, 05:31 PM

Just curious if anyone has heard anything on the alleged firmware update to allow selectable frame rates?

I check the Canon website every day, but was also curious if anyone has heard anything from the other web sites or contacts they have?

Canon... if you're reading, please release the firmware update !!!!!

Jim Froom · January 26th, 2010, 09:48 PM

I had two conversations with Canon USA last week. One with tech support and another in sales/marketing at Canon USA headquarters.

Both told me similar answers when I asked them about frame rates. The updated 5D firmware regarding frame rates will match the 7d ie, be the same.

Both also said something on the order that that was their understanding, not the official word until it comes out.

Jon Fairhurst · January 26th, 2010, 09:54 PM

Nice!

If we can get HD from HDMI while recording too we'll be set.

Scott Aubuchon · January 27th, 2010, 04:34 PM

"Thank you for your inquiry about recording 24p video with your 5D Mark
II. We value you as a Canon customer and appreciate the opportunity to
assist you.

At this moment there is no information available regarding any future
firmware updates for the 5D Mark II. We recommend you check our website
(EOS (SLR) Camera Systems - EOS Digital SLR Cameras - EOS 35mm SLR Cameras - Lenses - Flashes - Canon USA Consumer Products) from time to time to learn of new firmware
announcements.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance with your 5D Mark II."

Not sure what this proves, maybe just the fact that Canon support is not connected with any development.

January 11th, 2010, 04:13 PM	#121
Elliot Smith New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA (formerly Austin, TX, and NYC) Posts: 14	Hi all, I rarely post, but I figure I should share what I've been told. I've been researching the 5D a lot lately, and am eagerly awaiting the 24p firmware (I shoot stills and video). I've been hesitant to drop the money on one until the firmware comes out, just in case it ends up not happening, but now I'm sure enough it will. I was out at CES over the weekend, and on Saturday I went to the Canon booth and asked one of the reps who called himself a "junior tech" or something to that effect (he's new, basically) what was up with the 24p update, and is it actually happening? He said it's 99% likely that it will come out and that a guest at CES had brought him a new 5DmkII that had already had the firmware from the factory, and he claimed (not me, I didn't even ask about this) that it had 720p60 as well. He said that Canon would release the firmware in new cameras from the factory before it was made available online, which he claimed should happen soon. Not a lot of specifics beyond that. I asked if he was sure it was a 5DmkII and not a 7D that he saw (since he seemed green), and he said he was sure it was a 5DmkII. Naturally since he's new I want confirmation, so I went back and asked someone else on Sunday. This guy (I got his card, it's not with me at the moment, I didn't ask if he wanted me giving his name out - so I won't, wasn't thinking about posting here at the time) claimed his specialty was both the video cameras and the stills with video. We talked about the limitations of the HDV format as well as the audio and other limitations of shooting on the 5D. Anyway, he said that the 24p update was going to be coming out, he claimed he didn't know many details about it like release date or anything, though. He doubted that it would enable Audio Gain Control, and reccommended a mixer and just getting scratch audio off the 5D. Oddly enough I overheard him talking to another rep that another guest with a lot of questions should check out DV Info to get an understanding of the benefits and limitations of the 5D for video. So props to you all. Last week I called Canon USA to ask about the same thing, they told me they couldn't say anything because they didn't know, though that they were probably not out of line with what I had heard from the UK and Australian press releases. The reps were pretty open with me, I didn't press them for any answers, I just asked casually. I didn't present myself as press although I had a badge, but as an interested potential customer, which is the case. I appreciate you all as an info source for helping me make this decision, and I just thought you all should hear this. I can't vouch for the validity of any of this, but everything I wrote is how it happened, and I hope to pay you back by contributing what I can. Last edited by Elliot Smith; January 11th, 2010 at 04:48 PM.

January 21st, 2010, 11:52 AM	#127
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I reckon they'll have to release it before NAB (this April), otherwise they'll get flogged on the show floor. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 21st, 2010, 12:29 PM	#130
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Agreed. A few of us asked about the new firmware at CES, but at NAB it would look like feeding time in the piranha tank! Overall, Canon has been pretty smart about the 5D2 firmware - releasing just enough to get what they need. Manual firmware made Canon lenses - and IS - valuable for video. The 24/25p announcement kept the 5D2 strong through the holiday sales season. The price drop helps post-Christmas sales. Now, Canon needs to follow up on the 24/25p promise. I'm hopeful that the new firmware will match the features of the 7D/1D4, namely that we will get 1080/23.976, 1080/25, 1080/29.97, 720/50, and 720/59.97 as well as HD out during recording to help with manual focusing. Why would they do that? Simply to put the firmware to bed. As long as the 5D2 is lacking compared to its sisters, Canon will hear nagging and discontent. Make the three cameras the same, and Canon has a strong lineup with consistent advantages and disadvantages. Canon can easily say that any new features won't be introduced until the next generation of products. Fingers crossed for 720p and HD out during recording. And, yes, it should be in our hands before April. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

January 25th, 2010, 05:31 PM	#132
Billy Griffin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Enumclaw, WA Posts: 58	Any word from Canon? Just curious if anyone has heard anything on the alleged firmware update to allow selectable frame rates? I check the Canon website every day, but was also curious if anyone has heard anything from the other web sites or contacts they have? Canon... if you're reading, please release the firmware update !!!!!

January 26th, 2010, 09:54 PM	#134
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Nice! If we can get HD from HDMI while recording too we'll be set. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

January 12th, 2010, 12:59 AM	#122
James Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sussex, UK Posts: 317	That's great info Elliot, I notice at ParkCameras (UK) that the 5DMk2 now lists bare and kit versions "Available whilst stock lasts". Does this mean they are awaiting new models with built in updated firmware I wonder.

January 17th, 2010, 02:50 PM	#123
Eric Diosay New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Toronto, CANADA Posts: 11	Still waiting on the firmware, too. I have had the chance to play with the video capabilities of my new 5D and I am remarkably impressed. The small form factor and the ability to get it into tight spaces makes for a great kit especially for my needs. I'm currently working on building a rig that will be modular so that I can shoot on a tripod, shoulder mounted or suction mounted. Now all I need is the firmware to make this my number one cam =)

January 20th, 2010, 05:41 PM	#124
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	I'm seriously fed up with waiting for this update, having almost driven myself insane doing the 30 - 25 frame rate conversion in Compressor more times than i care to remember. 16 hours for an 8 minutes film. In fact i've considered trading it in for a 7d. A Canon rep at a trade show in London before Xmas told me to expect it "at the end of January", while another one was less committal, with the official Canon announcement of "first half of 2010". Let's hope the first guy proves to be right.

January 21st, 2010, 12:55 AM	#125
Elliot Smith New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA (formerly Austin, TX, and NYC) Posts: 14	I'm with you, I'm ready for it to come out. My impression is that it's right around the corner, which is enough for me to justify ordering it, which I just did (expecting it tomorrow!), though with some apprehension. Based on what I heard, I'd guess it should be out around the same timeframe, i.e. within the next month or so (unless something goes wrong in testing). I have little doubt that it is coming. I considered the 7D, but I saw a stills comparison and the 5D is noticeably better, at least as far as noise, but other IQ reasons too. Plus I've wanted a full frame still camera for a years, enough to put off buying a DSLR, and if I waited this long I may as well get what I've been waiting for. It's too bad wide motion picture lenses won't fit, que sera sera. I'm kind of wondering what other tweaks may be involved in addition to 24p. Zebra bars? Reduction in Moire pattern issues? Who knows?

January 21st, 2010, 11:49 AM	#126
Matthew Roddy Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Riverside, Ca Posts: 307	Not only am I oh-so-very-much looking forward to the 24p thing (and hopefully 720/60p), but if they could reduce the moire, I'd pretty much have to marry the camera. I just edited a bit last night were a woman's wool dress and nylons moire'd so badly, I couldn't use the shot. Ended up using an alternative where the camera was at a different distance and only they nylons "danced" for a moment or two. I'm not a pixel counter, but still, sometimes it drives ya nuts.

January 21st, 2010, 06:58 PM	#131
Matthew Roddy Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Riverside, Ca Posts: 307	HD Out! Yes! I forgot about that. If the camera had that and defeated AGC, well, what comes after marriage...? Hmm... Never mind. That's just gross. Chris B, No I haven't tried dropping the Sharpness yet. I am, however, editing in Cineform. This project was shot last Sept, as I recall. Anyway, it was before the mighty "Manual Controls Firmware Update." And it was my second shoot with the camera to boot. So my shots are all different exposures and settings. Fortunately I had learned enough to be JUST barely clever enough to know how to fake lock the ISO. So that will be my next test, dropping down the contrast and Sharpness to see what happens - but that's for another thread.

January 26th, 2010, 09:48 PM	#133
Jim Froom Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY usa Posts: 75	I had two conversations with Canon USA last week. One with tech support and another in sales/marketing at Canon USA headquarters. Both told me similar answers when I asked them about frame rates. The updated 5D firmware regarding frame rates will match the 7d ie, be the same. Both also said something on the order that that was their understanding, not the official word until it comes out.

January 27th, 2010, 04:34 PM	#135
Scott Aubuchon Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 105	My response from Canon "Thank you for your inquiry about recording 24p video with your 5D Mark II. We value you as a Canon customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you. At this moment there is no information available regarding any future firmware updates for the 5D Mark II. We recommend you check our website (EOS (SLR) Camera Systems - EOS Digital SLR Cameras - EOS 35mm SLR Cameras - Lenses - Flashes - Canon USA Consumer Products) from time to time to learn of new firmware announcements. We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your 5D Mark II." Not sure what this proves, maybe just the fact that Canon support is not connected with any development. __________________ My Awesome Show (SD) My Awesome Show (HD) iTunes