ZoomBrowser or Neo Scene?

Ilya Mamonov · January 31st, 2010, 07:38 PM

Yes, that's what I figured. I also read a few threads abouth these jitters/judders whatever people call them. Is that a rolling shutter issue?

Chris Barcellos · January 31st, 2010, 11:37 PM

The first thing I notice about this camera is hand holding is a lot more difficult because of what it is... a flat camera. Any movement up or down is right at the the film axis, if you are grippoing the camera like a 35mm shooter would. Its similar with the short HV20 I also have. Now bolt it on a shoulder brace, and you cut that down quickly. I think that jitter is primarily what we are seeing, and when you mount it, you will see a lot of that disappear.

Ilya Mamonov · February 1st, 2010, 11:16 AM

Yes, but actually I do not have any issues with raw files when I view then in ZoomBrowser. Not that I am seeing any, anyway. But they become visible after conversion even if I set Neoscene to keep the same frame rate setting during the conversion. I do see them, however, during actual filming on the camera's LCD. I will do some mroe testing during this week and will update. Thanks

Elena Pastor · February 4th, 2010, 05:08 PM

Hi ! i´m a newby into dslr video, but fast learner : )
Jon is possible if you can explain me a bit more about:

* It shoots 0-255. Video is generally 16-235. 0-255 is good because you get more levels, but it needs to be accounted for.

* The header says 1088 lines, rather than 1080.

0-255 and 16-235 are the gamma levels or it has to do with the ccd performance? And the 1088 lines is because the full frame?

thank´s!

Jon Fairhurst · February 4th, 2010, 06:55 PM

Hi Elena,

Regarding 0-255 and 16-235... 8-bits allows 256 levels of information (0-255). For computer graphics and photos, the range of the image is 0-255. In the video world, they left some room for the (originally analog) signal to go below black and above white. They set black at 16 and white at 235 to allow this extra headroom.

Most video editing systems work in the 16-235 range, but this is only 220 shades of gray. Canon DvSLRs provide 256 shades of gray, and it's nice to have those extra levels. The only challenge is that we need to squeeze the range to fit in the 16-235 space to give the proper levels in our editing systems. Cineform does this automatically. It's a 10-bit codec, so all 256 levels of gray remain unique.

I've heard that Premiere clips video at 16 and 235. If so, it could ruin the blacks and whites. Vegas does not clip, but one needs to manually convert from "Computer RGB" to "Studio RGB" in order to get the proper levels.

Regarding "1088", that is an error. It should be "1080". Maybe they use 1088 because it's divisible by 16. In Vegas it can add a black line at the bottom of the video if not corrected. Cineform corrects the error in its output.

Roy Niswanger · February 10th, 2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Marcum

Have you tried each format on your editing program? I find that .mov files are not editor friendly (Vegas 9). Even with a powerful computer, they will not preview smoothly, especially as the project size grows. The AVI files work great. I convert my AVCHD (HMC150) and .MOV (7D) files to AVI for editing. I save the original files because they take up less space than the converted files.

I use Neo Scene which works well, especially when converting a folder full of files. I also found a free converter Squared 5 - MPEG Streamclip video converter for Mac and Windows which appears to do the same. I just installed it last night so I have limited experience, but it seems to work fine.

Good Luck,

Doug

Doug,

So what were your thoughts on Squared5 MPEG Streamclip with your 7D files?

Thanks,
Roy

January 31st, 2010, 11:37 PM	#17
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	The first thing I notice about this camera is hand holding is a lot more difficult because of what it is... a flat camera. Any movement up or down is right at the the film axis, if you are grippoing the camera like a 35mm shooter would. Its similar with the short HV20 I also have. Now bolt it on a shoulder brace, and you cut that down quickly. I think that jitter is primarily what we are seeing, and when you mount it, you will see a lot of that disappear. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 4th, 2010, 06:55 PM	#20
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Hi Elena, Regarding 0-255 and 16-235... 8-bits allows 256 levels of information (0-255). For computer graphics and photos, the range of the image is 0-255. In the video world, they left some room for the (originally analog) signal to go below black and above white. They set black at 16 and white at 235 to allow this extra headroom. Most video editing systems work in the 16-235 range, but this is only 220 shades of gray. Canon DvSLRs provide 256 shades of gray, and it's nice to have those extra levels. The only challenge is that we need to squeeze the range to fit in the 16-235 space to give the proper levels in our editing systems. Cineform does this automatically. It's a 10-bit codec, so all 256 levels of gray remain unique. I've heard that Premiere clips video at 16 and 235. If so, it could ruin the blacks and whites. Vegas does not clip, but one needs to manually convert from "Computer RGB" to "Studio RGB" in order to get the proper levels. Regarding "1088", that is an error. It should be "1080". Maybe they use 1088 because it's divisible by 16. In Vegas it can add a black line at the bottom of the video if not corrected. Cineform corrects the error in its output. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

January 31st, 2010, 07:38 PM	#16
Ilya Mamonov Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Miami Beach, FL Posts: 53	Yes, that's what I figured. I also read a few threads abouth these jitters/judders whatever people call them. Is that a rolling shutter issue?

February 1st, 2010, 11:16 AM	#18
Ilya Mamonov Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Miami Beach, FL Posts: 53	Yes, but actually I do not have any issues with raw files when I view then in ZoomBrowser. Not that I am seeing any, anyway. But they become visible after conversion even if I set Neoscene to keep the same frame rate setting during the conversion. I do see them, however, during actual filming on the camera's LCD. I will do some mroe testing during this week and will update. Thanks

February 4th, 2010, 05:08 PM	#19
Elena Pastor New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Caracas, Venezuela Posts: 11	Hi ! i´m a newby into dslr video, but fast learner : ) Jon is possible if you can explain me a bit more about: * It shoots 0-255. Video is generally 16-235. 0-255 is good because you get more levels, but it needs to be accounted for. * The header says 1088 lines, rather than 1080. 0-255 and 16-235 are the gamma levels or it has to do with the ccd performance? And the 1088 lines is because the full frame? thank´s!