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All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


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Old March 20th, 2010, 08:55 AM   #1
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5d mk2 video - questions - Please help

Hi,
I am relatively new to videos, but have been trying the video on 5d mk2 for a while now.
If someone can answer these questions, that will be really helpful for me to get a good start.

1. With firmware 2.04 I have set the shutter speed at 1/50 for 24 fps in TV mode and set ISO to 100. What I am seeing is that ISO automatically goes up even if it is set to ISO100. I checked the safety shift etc in camera and they are all turned off, so essentially camera should have used ISO100 even if exposure is dark. I am clueless how this is happening. How do I prevent ISO from automatically going up?

2. I have a Rode video mic. What is the optimal setting for audio in manual mode?

3. My understanding is that with 24 fps it is always better to use 1/50 shutter speed. But with good sunlight this means that your aperture goes to even f/22 to maintain proper exposure. How do you really control DOF (looking to use narrow DOF for some shots) at the same time maintain the 1/50 shooting speed. Do you guys use neutral density filter or polarizer or something like that?

I am planning to use the camera in April for a short documentary film, so I experimenting with the camera and lens for the optimal results. Your help is truly appreciated.

Thank You in advance
Ramesh
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Old March 20th, 2010, 09:09 AM   #2
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Answer to #3: Neutral Density filters
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Old March 20th, 2010, 10:10 AM   #3
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You do not always need to use TV. If you set the camera dial to Manual, then you have the option of setting the ISO at a fixed setting for video. (Set main dial to M and then press on ISO button on camera top panel).

I prefer to use the camera in AV (aperture priority) as this maintains my aperture/iris at a fixed setting while the camera automatically adjusts the shutter speed. For bright light I use ND and PL filters.

When you pan in either TV or AV modes through a scene with different light levels, the camera will go bright and light as you swing through the scene or move via a glide/slide-rail. To prevent this and to maintain a fixed setting throughout the pan, simply press the * AE Lock button (next to AF-ON button) and this will hold your metering at a fixed point. To bring the metering out of the fixed setting, simply press on the AF Point/Magnify button (to right of AE button).

If you are plugging the Rode mic directly into the camera, it is wise to set the audio to Manual. However, you will not obtain great clean audio this way (in my opinion) and I would advise to use seperate system sound by plugging the Rode via XLR lead into a Zoom H4n or similar sound recorder.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 10:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick View Post
I prefer to use the camera in AV (aperture priority) as this maintains my aperture/iris at a fixed setting while the camera automatically adjusts the shutter speed.

You do this when shooting stills? Or when shooting video?
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Old March 20th, 2010, 10:49 AM   #5
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Yeah, Av mode with a changing shutter is one of the last things that you'd want to do with video.

A better approach for video is Tv mode. Set the shutter to 1/50 or 1/60 as appropriate and let the camera do the rest. When the exposure is to your liking, hit AE Lock (*). If conditions change, you can hit (*) again, or you can use the wheel on the back of the camera to offset the exposure.

Personally, I recommend getting to know the camera and the dedicated buttons, so you can use manual mode quickly. But, if you're starting out with video and just want the shot, Tv mode and AE Lock can get you there.

FWIW, these shutter speeds should be your default choices:
* 24p or 25p in sunlight or in a 50Hz region (Europe, China...): 1/50
* 30p in sunlight or a 60Hz region (North America, West Japan...): 1/60
* 50 Hz lights (especially fluorescent): 1/50
* 60 Hz lights (especially fluorescent): 1/60

If you were talking about Av for photos and know all the above, my apologies, though this stuff is always useful for new users.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 10:57 AM   #6
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In, AV? Yes, for both stills and video. I use M or AV most of the time. TV just doesn't give enough control over the aperture setting for most of my work.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 12:38 PM   #7
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I never understood Av for video. How can I look after shutter speed?
M and Tv looks offering more control over video. With new FW I use manual Zeiss lenses and Tv and I get automatic ISO and exposure correction plus exposure lock.
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Old March 20th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #8
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A simple press of exposure lock in AV and you have instant readout of shutter speed, so that is no problem. I prefer AV and M for stills, camcorder and DSLR video work because it allows me full control and smooth workflow. I've worked this way for many years without a problem. I sometimes use TV, but not as much as AV & M. It all comes down to what you are comfortable working with.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #9
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I think what many might object to, is that Av actually doesn't allow for full control.

It allows you full control over your aperture, but not ISO or shutter (even if you can lock these in momentarily).

There is a full control mode, of course: M, for full manual.

Out of convenience I use Av almost all the time when shooting photos, and then work with the ISO if shutter times are getting too slow. In a photo there's no difference between f2.8 and 1/50 or f2.8 and 1/2000 as long as the camera is steady and nothing is moving.

Problem is with video your shutter is telling the story almost as much as your aperture. But because we all want to use 'normal' shutter most of the time we set this to 180 degree shutter angle, which corresponds to double the frame rate:

24p = 1/48 or
25p = 1/50 or
30P = 1/60

If you shoot video in Av mode on a bright day and set aperture to f2.8 or f4 or similar the camera will go to ISO 100. After that it has nowhere to go, so it needs to adjust shutter speed to cut down on light. It will depart from 1/50 and quickly go very high. I don't remember if Canon capped the shutter to 1/125 in the half automatic modes, but if it doesn't you might end up shooting video at 1/400 or what have you.

Not a classic choice for sure.

Problem with video is we actually need to control both aperture and shutter- suggesting M mode.

Going with 1/50 in Tv mode is of course fine, but there is no real control over aperture- it might not be needed. Normal camcorders do this and constantly change the aperture, but due to their small sensor sizes and optics it has no real effect on footage. It's different from shooting full frame.

The solution for daytime outdoor shooting with a full frame DSLR is M mode and ND filters. This provides ultimate control but can be a bit cumbersome. Many choose variable ND filters.

Don't know why I write this here, as I'm sure it's common knowledge to almost everyone. Oh, well....
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Old March 24th, 2010, 04:35 AM   #10
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I think it is good to express your thoughts and knowledge, Andree. I, and many other long-term photographers and cinematographers/videographers reading this thread will already know everything you detailed in your post, but for every one of us there will be ten others thirsty for answers to their questions, especially newcomers to DV.

There is always a quest for knowledge, but as the years go by and our brains have been filled with advice from others, reading books and first-hand experience...there eventually comes a time to expand beyond the boundaries; if not, then the vision which drives our quest becomes stale.

One of the things that I've learned through life is that rules are there to maintain control, but being a bit of a 'black sheep' I've also learned that often it is wise to bend those rules, or even at times break the rules - this applies as much to making movies as it does to capturing stills...and in fact to life itself.

I almost always obtain my very best photographs and footage when I'm not thinking too much about abiding by strict rules of how it is supposed to be done. If I did, then my work would not be different from everyone else. Do you want the footage to reflect the smooth and filmic quality of Wuthering Heights or the staccato jaggedness of Private Ryan...or something entirely different?

I definitely do not think it is important to stick to 1/50 @ 25p for the best footage, as much as I do not think it is important for me to stick to 300th sec when hand-holding a 300mm f/2.8 for stills – even though the rule books tell me it is the 'correct procedure for the best results'.

One thing that it is vitally important to me is that what I capture on tape, film or digital sensor reflects my inner vision.

If that fleeting moment looks good filmed at 1/1,000 & f/1.8 and another scene looks good at 1/30 sec & f/4 + NDs and yet another looks good at 1/50 & f/22 then I'm happy to film it at those settings...regardless that the camera is set at 25P and I'm not following set rules.

Yes, it is important to have a baseline, and my stills photography settings are often very different from my video setting for a similar scene. For example I will often vary my aperture for stills from f/1.2 to f/22 depending on the subject I'm photographing, but in video my aperture is more rigidly set between f/4 and f/8 for a wide range of subjects - although I will often break my own guidelines just to get something different in the 'can'.

Yes, learn your trade well and follow the rules set by a million masters who went before us, but don't always stick to those rules to reach your own goals. Sometimes it wise not to follow a million lemmings towards the same cliff...because they are all heading for the same end result; and I can often view a more interesting goal to head towards in the opposite direction.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 08:50 AM   #11
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Too True

A lot of the information posted is very helpful. I am new to DSLR and am really slowly finding my way using advice picked up from this forum.

I shoot a lot of amateur athletics and was unhappy with my early efforts using auto mode. The athletes arms and hands were too blurred.

So after reading and watching Tony Davies-Patrick birds at 1/30th and 1/2000th, I maybe over reacted and shot this at 1/2000th.


Yes it jumps but I can freeze every frame and see what is going on with the athletes. I know next time I will probably use manual and come down to around 1/300th to get similar results. But it solved my blurry arms and legs problems, now we know we need orthotics for our daughter's feet as she's pronating. Useful video from our perspective even if it plays back a little choppy in parts.

Regards

Jeff
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Old March 24th, 2010, 09:28 AM   #12
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Shooting video for analytical purposes, and shooting video for narrative/theatrical purposes are very, very different things. This is not a one-size-fits-all game. And learning the differences is important.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #13
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If you accept the principle that the shutter must stay fixed when filming then full manual mode is the only serious way to shoot. It's funny, back when Scott Billups wrote his book everything was focused on getting prosumer cameras to act more like professional gear - which of course meant having full manual control. It's one of the reasons the great 14x manual Ikegami lens was so popular and we added them to our XL1s.

This is just my opinion of course, but just because DSLRs have these options, doesn't mean using them should be encouraged <g>. I'm hardly old fashioned, I love the bleeding edge, but there's one way to get what you want from the 5DII and that's to learn to set your exposure on the fly with a fixed 1/50 shutter for 24p work.

I'm not coming from a "sure you can do that in controlled circumstances" environment. Half of what we produce is on the run, action stuff often under the toughest exposure conditions.
Variable NDs are the single best tool for this. A great VF is another absolute.

I don't want my camera doing things that it thinks it should when we're capturing one take, one opportunity footage. Like photography, the faster you learn how to achieve your vision in real time, the better, more successful you become.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 07:23 AM   #14
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Well said Jim.
In a pro situation (controlled or not) you need to know your tools and know how to get what you want straight away without messing about.

I've learned loads from this very forum and in conjunction with using my camera almost every day, even if only for practice, I'm finding that I am much more confident at getting what I want from a shot by setting the camera and not letting it set itself.

I don't claim to be brilliant in anyway, but I'm slowly getting better…

So cheers to everyone on DVi who has ever shared their knowledge.

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Old March 26th, 2010, 12:55 PM   #15
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No body really answered your questions directly, so here are my thoughts:

1. This automatic action is a little twist that is kind of hiding on the camera until you turn to proper setting. You have to go into the Live View settings and be sure you camera is set in movie mode. If it is set in "simulation" mode, ISO reacts automatically when shooting video, even if you have dial on camera set at M.

2. My experience is that you will get a lot of noise using the NTG-2 directly to the camera. I run my NTG-2 and NTG-3 through the Juiced Link CX231 XLR adapter. It has a very clean preamp. You will need to set CX231 at highest Gain level switch, and crank the trim near to the top. On the camera side, you will need to set the sould level at no more than four clicks up from the bottom.

3. I use a variable ND filter, almost like an aperature control ring-- like these:

fader ND

I set my shutter speed and aperature as I want, and using my monitor which has exposure adjusting capabiities built in is a thing called false colors, I can adjust the final exposure. You will also be able to do this with Magic Lantern and its zebras, which I believe will be released soon. I have been able to test the beta version of Magic Lantern for 2.04, and can tell you it will be well received, and still be of great benefit, affording more these controls.

Edit:

As far as shooting in a semi auto mode, since I shoot mostly non-auto Nikon and Pentax mount lenses, adapted to the 5D, when I shoot in manual, I can set ISO at Auto, leaving shutter speed and aperature preset, and let the ISO adjust exposure. The camera actually does a decent job of making the change appear seemless. As I recall, I may have set the auto exposure adjustments to take some time to change.
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