Magic Lantern and Canon's 2.0.4 firmware

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Joe:

DN101 is not for Magic Lantern. It is for those who don't use ML, and want to shut down the AGC. And Yes, in that case, you are giving up one channel, and your recording will be mono. Last year in April /May, before ML, I had used an MP3 player with a 16kz tone to do the same thing they are doing with the DN101.

What are you using to get sound to headphones from the 5D ? Are you boosting with an amp ?

I'm confused here. With or without ML we've moved past the point where you need to disable AGC with any external device. In other words the DN101 isn't "for those who don't use ML"...no one needs to disable AGC, Canon just did. Obviously I know you know that Chris but the post is confusing.

[Bill Binder]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

I'm confused here. With or without ML we've moved past the point where you need to disable AGC with any external device. In other words the DN101 isn't "for those who don't use ML"...no one needs to disable AGC, Canon just did. Obviously I know you know that Chris but the post is confusing.

Well, unless you own a 7D of course...

[Jon Fairhurst]

Here's the audio hierarchy...

With a T2i/550D, 7D, 1D4, use a JL preamp and the DN101. The sound will be almost as good as an external recorder like the Zoom and you won't have to sync.

With a CX231, 5D and FW 2.0.4 but no Magic Lantern, your sound will be at a similar level to a Zoom or H4n. You won't get a headphone output though. You could consider the DN101 for monitoring, but I don't know if the sound quality will be as good. I haven't tested that combo.

With a CX231, 5D, and Magic Lantern, you get the cleanest sound without going to a high-end recorder, and you can monitor with headphones, given the right cable. No DN101 is necessary.

[Tim Polster]

Thanks for your help Jon.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

I'm confused here. With or without ML we've moved past the point where you need to disable AGC with any external device. In other words the DN101 isn't "for those who don't use ML"...no one needs to disable AGC, Canon just did. Obviously I know you know that Chris but the post is confusing.

Magic Lantern is still going to give you better control over gain, plus out of camera monitoring, and thus I still consider it the best resolution.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Chris is right. By "better control over gain" that means that you can adjust the analog and digital sections separately. Canon sets a fixed analog gain and lets you adjust digital only. When you crank the Canon gain all the way down, it's not as quiet (noise-wise) as turning down the ML gain.

[Kirk Candlish]

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

That is if you have a sync to avoid audio drift. It is not as simple as just recording to your sound device of choice and letting it and the video run separately.

Sure it is.

I'm using an SD302 into a Marantz PMD661 with both the 7D and 5DII. I haven't had any drift problems in the 12 min. clips. Though most songs never run a full 12 min.

Pluraleyes does a great job of lining clips up if you don't care to do it manually to a clap or board.

Singular Software

[Joe Ray Skrha]

Dear Jon, Chris and Tim,
Thankyou for your input. It confirms my research and experimenting with these various matters.
Now that we use 2.0.4 on manual (click 1) and ML 1.8 with a 5DMKII and CX431, what levers on ML can give me the cleanest signal to noise ratio? ML has three settings that I can adjust... Output Volume, Analog Gain and L & R Gain... How do you recommend I set them (assuming I have a good clean input from a mic or line input into the CX431) ???
I read that you recommend I keep the analog gain at =10dB... how about the Output Volume? or L & R Gain? Is one of these the Digital Gain??? Where should these levels be set at to get the cleanest and best sound??? Sincerely, Joe Ray Skrha at: joeray@alaska.net

[Jon Fairhurst]

Hi Joe,

I run ML as follows:
* m_gain = +10 dB or +17dB, depending on how loud/quiet things are
* d_gain_r = d_gain_l = 0dB
* output_gain depends on the how loud you want your headphone output.

With m_gain = +17dB I get the same level of recording as FW 2.0.4 at 3 ticks over the minimum. That's where I've been running my tests, since I can match levels and compare apples to apples.

With the JL input set to line-level, I get it to calibrate with the gain on "H" and the knob at about 2:00. Switching to a mic-level input boosts the gain in the JL by 40 dB. Of course, with a microphone input, there's no such thing as calibration. You just need to adjust for proper levels depending on the loudness of the source, the distance from the mic, and the sensitivity of the mic.

[Steven Fokkinga]

I was just wondering, would it be possible to use external recorders like the H4N or the DR100 as a pre-amp? So using their headphone or line output with a short cable as a feed to the camera? Or would that result in inferior audio (compared to using them as standalone recorders, or a JL as pre-amp)?

[Steve Cahill]

Just completed a shoot with using the Zooms headphone output direct to the 5D. 5D manual input is set to 1. Used a Pad from Search Results for ‘DVCreator Line to Mic Cable ’ at DVcreators.net

Which is a -50db mic pad.

You will have to set level of output volume of headphone to get proper level, but once set, you can forget it and adjust Zooms record level.

[Steven Fokkinga]

OK, that's great! So it seems that if you have a zoom or tascam recorder and such a pad, you basically have a two-in-one, right? You can choose to either use the standalone recorder or the synced signal from camera. Or even let them run simultaneously if you want...

[Tim Polster]

Originally Posted by Kirk Candlish

Sure it is.

I'm using an SD302 into a Marantz PMD661 with both the 7D and 5DII. I haven't had any drift problems in the 12 min. clips. Though most songs never run a full 12 min.

I am waiting to buy any sound gear until all the news from NAB is out to see if there is any view of what might be next in the camera world.

A test to see if drift is happening is very easy. Record 12min of music with the 5D internal mic while simultaneously recording with the external device.

Put both audio files on a timeline, sync up from the beginning and play. Take note of when/if the two start to separate. Since you are recording music, I would test this just to make sure.

[Jim Giberti]

Originally Posted by Bill Binder

Well, unless you own a 7D of course...

I missed that, but it's an honest mistake - this is the 5DII forum.

[Bill Binder]

Originally Posted by Steve Cahill

Just completed a shoot with using the Zooms headphone output direct to the 5D. 5D manual input is set to 1. Used a Pad from Search Results for ‘DVCreator Line to Mic Cable ’ at DVcreators.net

Which is a -50db mic pad.

You will have to set level of output volume of headphone to get proper level, but once set, you can forget it and adjust Zooms record level.

Typically the headphones out of a consumer recorder (and for that matter even a good prosumer model) will suck bad (e.g., lots 'o noise). If your recorder has a line out you'd probably be much, MUCH better off than the surely POS headphone outputs. Just saying...