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Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
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Old May 26th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #1
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clip length question

I used my 5D as a 3rd angle for this 25 minute show I was shooting w/ my Sony EX-1s.
I had a 16 gb card in the Canon, figuring it won't go the distance, but I'll use whatever I get before the card fills up. The camera was unattended, I hit record and walked away. It only recorded 12 minutes, which was fine, and what I think I was expecting. But the clip was only 4gb in size, and when I went to format the card I had so much space left. I don't know the term for it, but is there a size limit this camera can handle for one 'take? And advice?' Thanks.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #2
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Yes, 4GB, which is approximately 12 minutes of 1920x1080 footage This is a FAT32 limitation (the biggest file FAT32 can handle is 4GB).

There is no way around this, unless Canon introduces a firmware update which would allow us to format the CF cards with another file system. This is unlikely!
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Old May 26th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #3
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Thread title changed from "5D mk 2 question" to "clip length question." Please avoid ambiguous thread titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian Frost View Post
This is a FAT32 limitation (the biggest file FAT32 can handle is 4GB.
As explained on this site many times before, this is *not* at FAT32 file limitation. Instead it is there to avoid a value-added tax imposed in the EU on devices which record more than thirty minutes of video (29 min. 59 sec. of standard def video = 4GB = appx. 12 min. HD video).
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Old May 26th, 2010, 10:51 PM   #4
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From Microsoft's own web page (http://support.microsoft.com/default...en-us;314463):

"You cannot create a file larger than (2^32)-1 bytes (this is one byte less than 4 GB) on a FAT32 partition."

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table):

"The maximum possible size for a file on a FAT32 volume is 4 GB minus 1 byte (232−1 bytes). Video applications, large databases, and some other software easily exceed this limit. Larger files require another formatting type such as NTFS."

Now, what Chris is talking about, is that Canon decided (for the reasons he mentioned) to not allow the camera to automatically continue storing footage in a new file, after the 4GB limit has been reached.

So, yes, there is a 4GB limit for FAT32. And yes, there are other reasons why Canon decided to limit recording time to (approximately) 12 minutes of footage.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 01:34 AM   #5
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Couldn't it be fixed in the firmware by just creating a new file, automatically, every 4GB?
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Old May 27th, 2010, 02:52 AM   #6
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I suspect that auto firmware feature (it could be argued) converts the camera into what the EU could define as a video camera rather than a stills camera.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 07:26 AM   #7
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All cameras & camcorders in the EU are subject to a value-added-tax (Sales tax) that is between 15-25% depending on the country. In addition a camcorder is subject to a customs duty of 4.9% (a stills camera is not subject to this customs duty). A digital camera is classified as a camcorder if it can record more than 30 minutes of video at a quality at or exceeding 800x600 pixels at 23 frames per second or more. Here is a link to the UK Government website where the classifications are explained http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1080271909

The recording limits of the Canon 5DII are 30 minutes for 640x480 video & approximately 12 minutes for 1920x1080p. Neither of these limits appear to be related to ensuring the camera avoids classification as a camcorder & thus the 4.9% import duty. 640x480 video is not even a consideration & a stills camera can record up to 29'59" of 1920x1080 video without being subject to camcorder duty.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 07:47 AM   #8
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The 23 frames per second or more could possibly define it as a camcorder if it goes over certain limits.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
The 23 frames per second or more could possibly define it as a camcorder if it goes over certain limits.
My reading of the definition was that all the criteria must be met. So that if the video is at least 800x600 and 23fps (or more) and over 30 minutes recording time then it is classified as a camcorder.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 10:18 AM   #10
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That could be the case at 800x600, but the increased data in HD mode would be the cause of only having approx 12 mins, I.E. it's impossible for the camera to go over 30 mins in any one file at the lower resolution, so no risk of it being defined a camcorder, resulting in the camera being only capable of 12 mins HD.

Having an easy firmware adjustment for a longer HD record time could risk the EU asking awkward questions regarding the lower resolution record time. The simplest method is for the DSLR manufacturers to say it can't record a 30 minute file in any mode, but accepting the 12 minute HD restriction, which was no big deal for the original web news shooting plans for the camera.
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Old May 27th, 2010, 10:23 AM   #11
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Perfect answer, Brian, and the definitive one with which we'll close this thread.

Not interested in going further with this since it has been hashed and re-hashed here many times before.
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