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Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


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Old June 9th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #1
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NEWB Questions Here...

Hi I am a bit of risk taker and after going to WEVA seminar and hearing Joe Simon speak I was pumped up and sold all 3 of my FX1's and purchased 3 Canon 5D's MKII. I have (2) 24-70mm. (1) 85mm. I also picked up some glidecams, monopods and Senheiser mics...blah blah blah...anywho!

White balancing: Easiest way? To use WB Cards? or not to?


Finding the Right ISO? What do you recommend for shooting weddings?


and...

Shutter speed, what to use and what not to use. We are shooting 1920x1280 24p. What is correct?


Thanks, I did search for these but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. THANKS IN ADVANCE

Ryan
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Old June 9th, 2010, 09:43 PM   #2
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1/48 is the correct shutter speed for 24p.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #3
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That leaves white balance.

Manual white balance on a 5d Mk II is a JOKE. (Sorry, I love the camera and am both an early adopter and a strong advocate - but JOKE is the right word here.) Go ahead and read the laughable directions in the manual if you must.

I suspect you'll end up doing what I do.

Primarily, I work my ass off to provide my own lighting in all controllable situations. Then I ALWAYS set the manual color temperature of the camera to match what I know I'm using as the key lights.

When you run into mixed lighting, you had BETTER know enough about the subject in a practical, grounded in real-world practice to work around things or you're NOT going to be happy.

This is probably the BIGGEST area where the fact that it's a DSLR and NOT a proper video camera is a major drawback.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 09:42 AM   #4
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This is probably the BIGGEST area where the fact that it's a DSLR and NOT a proper video camera is a major drawback.
Yeah, that and... focus... and zoom... and audio... LOL...

(Don't get me wrong, I love my 5D2, but it ain't no video camera that's for sure.)
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Old June 10th, 2010, 09:55 AM   #5
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White balancing: Easiest way? To use WB Cards? or not to?
I usually do a custom white balance using a diffusion disk -- similar to this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B001BO2LBK/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=502394&s=photo
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Old June 10th, 2010, 02:28 PM   #6
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Regarding WB, you might want to check out the ExpoImaging ExpoDisc. I got mine from B&H.

ExpoImaging | ExpoDisc 77mm Digital White Balance | EXPOD77
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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #7
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Not to sound rude, but it sounds like you guy's are ANTI-5D for video-ing? I mean, in no way could I do with my FX1000s that the 5D produces. IMO...
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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:34 PM   #8
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Nope, definitely not "anti" -- just realistic and practical. For what it's worth, I own a 5D Mk. II, two 7Ds, a Rebel T2i and eight lenses. Everything suggested to you so far in this thread is dead on the money. If you're going to shoot video with these things, you have to understand their real-world limitations.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #9
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you have to understand their real-world limitations.
As you would for the Red, an F900, a betacam, or an HVX200.

I white balance off anything white, but then, I grew up as a news shooter. I will say that so far I am impressed with auto whitebalance, it is better than AWB on other pro-sumer level cameras. (Not to say I'd recommend using it on a feature film, but it'll get you by in a pinch.)
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Old June 10th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #10
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I get the feeling that you'll have no problem making the 5D2 work. If you already have a Glidecam and Sennheiser mics, are a risk taker - and you like the 5D2 look - you'll find a way to make beautiful images with it. It's the people who expect to point and shoot who run into trouble.

Once you set the custom WB (with offsets available, if you want to nudge it a bit), set a good exposure, and are prepared to stabilize the camera with a tripod, steadi-rig, dolly, slider or shoulder rig, the remaining challenge is focus. One thing that takes some time to develop is a shallow DOF style. Maybe you're into the straight-ahead style of Hollywood, which always has the subject in clear focus. Or maybe you prefer a more artistic, impressionist view of the world.

For straight-ahead shooting, you'll want to stop down a bit (say f/4.5 and above), you'll want Zeiss ZE, ZF or ($$$) CP.2 lenses. You'll want a follow focus. And for some shots, you'll want an AC to pull focus.

For a more impressionistic style, feel free to use an f/1.2 lens and ND filters. Feel free to move in and out of focus. Get Twixtor or equivalent, so you can play smooth slow motion. (Shooting in 30p and playing back in 24p is subtle and dreamy too.)

Straight-ahead shooting is technically difficult, but rewarding. Impressionistic shooting is artistically challenging to develop - too much, too little or inconsistent focus effects look amateur. Done well and it's otherworldly. Both styles are more challenging than shooting with a small chip camera. But where there is risk, there is often reward.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 07:03 AM   #11
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Thanks Guy's and Thank you Jon...I feel a little better about my investment!
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Old June 11th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #12
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Ryan,

Here's an example of the impressionist style shooting (which I am just starting to learn). I shot every frame with a Canon EF 85/1.8 wide open on a shoulder rig. 24p, 1/50, 100 ISO, circular polarizer, 0.9 ND, custom WB from a white card, Neutral Picture Style (Contrast and Sharpening at minimum; Saturation: -1).

Melissa Fairy

I didn't have a follow focus, and the focus ring on the EF 85/1.8 is only about 90 degrees. For the master shot (she played and sang the song in one take), I pre-focused and then kept focus with my feet. On the b-roll (which I shot during rehearsal and while setting up mics and levels) I would rack roughly with the focus ring and fine tune the focus with my feet.

I would have put in more b-roll during the singing, but my daughter's hair was in her face on those shots, so she vetoed those cuts. My lesson learned is to pay close attention to the details and body positions in the master shot, and to match those as best as possible in the b-roll that is shot afterward. That would have allowed me to balance the cuts and the in/out of focus stuff more consistently.

If one shot is out of focus, it looks like a mistake. If all the shots are out of focus, it looks bad. If about a third of the shots have rough focus, it looks intentional. :)

One thing I learned is how much easier it is to focus with the feet (camera position) than with the lens when shooting shallow DOF with a shoulder rig. With the lens, you have to remember which way to turn it, the control is coarse, and it's non linear (turn it faster when close than far). It's a real skill. By contrast, focusing with the feet is very natural, can be learned very quickly, and you have all the resolution that you could want. Just move in and out to track the talent or to find the focal plane that you want. As it's a whole body movement, it's kind of fun as well. Sort of like a dance.

Best of luck with your new cameras!
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Old June 11th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #13
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My lesson learned is to pay close attention to the details and body positions in the master shot, and to match those as best as possible in the b-roll that is shot afterward. That would have allowed me to balance the cuts and the in/out of focus stuff more consistently.
Wow, that sound is about as perfect as it gets for an outdoor live recording. In fact, at first I though this was a studio recording and that she must be the best lip-syncer there is ;^) The only thing that was slightly out of sync was some b-roll guitar stoke, especially at 0:19". Good job, and I bet you're one proud father.

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Old June 11th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #14
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Thanks Peer!

The recording was done with a Shure SM57 about a foot from the 12th fret positioned a bit below the camera line. The vocal mic was a Rode NT1A about a foot from her mouth 45 degrees to the side. One adjustment that we'll make next time is to turn the mics a bit off-axis to reduce the bleed. With a cardioid, we don't have to be centered on the target, so we can turn the guitar mic away from the voice and the vocal mic away from the guitar.

Thank goodness there was no wind! Even a small gust would have rumbled with those mics! Here's the kicker - after waiting for a few disruptions to pass, the neighbor started his tractor! He was probably 200 or more yards away and on the other side of homes and trees, so we went for it. It ended up not being an issue.

I compressed the guitar track heavily and the vocal track lightly. Since there was lots of bleed, I used some fairly aggressive, complimentary EQ to isolate the voice and guitar. I panned each by about 25%. I then added a small amount of large-space reverb - about -45dB as I recall. I mastered lightly with a multiband compressor and limiter. Finally, I applied a touch of noise reduction, since we had recorded with high headroom through a juicedLink preamp into a Microtrack II (it was the most handy recorder at the time. I had a sound person and wanted the camera untethered.)

Overall, the setup for this shoot was as easy as it gets. Since we were outside, we didn't have to worry about a studio space, placement, or reflections (just wind). Shooting in sunlight with leaves to break it up meant that we didn't need lights or a reflector. I'm thinking of bringing a large "branchosaurus" with us to future shoots, since it's easy and interesting on sunny days.

And, yeah, the b-roll was a challenge to sync as we didn't use a click track. I had originally slowed that guitar strum to 50%, which looked great, but Melissa felt that it was over dramatic. There are a number of changes I would have made in the edit if I had shot better b-roll. That's probably the most important lesson I learned from the shoot. Watch the details in the master shot and pay attention to continuity in the b-roll.

Anyway, this kind of thing is right in the bullseye of the 5D Mark II. If one can learn how to befriend shallow DOF and in and out of focus shooting, it can really deliver the goods on the first take.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #15
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I then added a small amount of large-space reverb - about -45dB as I recall. I mastered lightly with a multiband compressor and limiter. Finally, I applied a touch of noise reduction
Not to sound too lecture-ish here, but a rule of thumb for most signal processing workflows -- you start with the reductions and end with the "adhesions". Hence, in your case, I'd suggest that you begin with the noise reduction, then EQ, comp & limit, and then as the last thing add the reverb.

Anyways, again I must say how impressive and brave it is to see you make a music video where you record the music at the same time with the video... and doing so OUTSIDE, and with your tractor racing neighbor to boot -- made my Friday ;^)

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