What is Your Editing Drug of Choice?....for the 5D at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Canon EOS Full Frame for HD
All about using the Canon 1D X, 6D, 5D Mk. IV / Mk. III / Mk. II D-SLR for 4K and HD video recording.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 22nd, 2010, 11:06 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 34
What is Your Editing Drug of Choice?....for the 5D

Ok, so for the past few years we have used Pinnacle Studio Pro 12 & 14. Which works well for weddings and events. It has a ton of Professional features that work great for what we do.

Now that we're using the Canon 5D MKII I feel as if we should step up our editing software as well... Question, does the type of software dictate the quality of the video? (ie...resolution).

If it doesn't change it at all, we might as well stick with Pinnacle it works for us. However, I understand that Pinnacle is frowned upon the industry. We're just having a hard time finding a software to crossover to.

Thanks,
Ryan
Ryan McHugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 11:27 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Resolution is a fixed number. But that's like judging a car based on whether it will do 100mph. Doing it in a SmartCar, or doing it in a Porsche are two VERY different experiences.

With care, most software programs can retain the quality of footage through simple editing. It's when things begin to get a bit more advanced that professional editing software separates itself. If you aren't doing much, stay put for now.

If you decide to move up, I'd say right now Adobe CS5 has the best 5D2 workflow going. Though Avid's isn't too bad either.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 11:41 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
First Question I alway ask someone here is do you intend to convert into an editable codec. This is almost mandatory to get a decent editing experience, because the nature of the H.264 file, and its processing demands. (Obviously, a high end machine may eliminate that need.) On the Apple side, you have to do that, as I understand it, and on the PC side there are various schemes available. I personally have been using Cineform and Vegas for years now, and love it. I had used Pinnacle and Premiere Pro 2.0 before, and after trying Vegas stayed with it. In Pinnacle, you will have been used to a lot of prepackaged transitions and such, and some limited controls, but Vegas and other NLEs provide you with so much more control.

I convert my 5D footage to Cineforms codec. Depending on what you get, Cineform adds about $125 to $ 500.00 to your initial investment. I haven't priced Vegas Pro lately, but you are probably talking SRP in the $ 600 range. Look for deals. I remember back in the days when I started using it, BH Photo had a deal on Vegas 7 disks, that was unbelievable, and that I from there added updates at update pricing versus new user pricing.

There is also a fairly new product out from DVFilm.com called EPIC that converts 5D files to a proxy codec for a real time editing experience. It cost about $45. You do all your editing using the proxy, then on final render, the real files are used to generate.

I recently used the Edius Neo Booster (something like that anyway) trial, which claims you can edit realtime with AVCHD. I was impressed with the program, and if I was starting out, and not already committed to another tract, I would have considered it. In terms of workflow, it is probably close to your Pinnacle program.

And always, there is Avids Media Composer and Adobes offerings out there, and a little higher price range.
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 12:40 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 292
Avid Media Composer 5

Avid | Avid Media Composer 5 Getting Started Training
Bob Willis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 07:00 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 547
CineForm is a very high quality codec, but Premiere Pro CS5 also handles DSLR footage natively...and quite well.

(I think Vegas has been able to handle DSLR footage for a version of two has it not? It's been a bit since I've tried it I guess.)

So there are a couple options.
__________________
TimK
Kolb Productions
Tim Kolb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 07:45 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Kolb View Post
(I think Vegas has been able to handle DSLR footage for a version of two has it not? It's been a bit since I've tried it I guess.)
If by "handle" you mean place a clip on the timeline and play it back, then yes. If, on the other hand, you mean do an effective edit and finish, then I'd have to say no. At least not in the traditional sense.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:12 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
If by "handle" you mean place a clip on the timeline and play it back, then yes. If, on the other hand, you mean do an effective edit and finish, then I'd have to say no. At least not in the traditional sense.
:-) Fair enough. I'll defer to those with a bit more experience with that platform...
__________________
TimK
Kolb Productions
Tim Kolb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:40 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,414
I wouldn't touch any footage without Cineform being the first stage in my editing...
Ray Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2010, 10:11 PM   #9
Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bell View Post
I wouldn't touch any footage without Cineform being the first stage in my editing...
Totally agree. I use Cineform with all my XH-A1 files which allows me to do complex work in After Effects (and soon with files from my new 5D MKII). The clarity and integrity of Cineform files is amazing through multiple edits. I HIGHLY recommend their software. Just bite the bullet and buy it - you won't be disappointed.
Stuart Brontman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2010, 02:20 AM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Final Cut Pro - out of the box - no extra software stages.

5dMk ii files are pulled directly off the cards (or via proxy) inside the Canon EOS utility app which transcodes to Pro Res 4:2:2 on the fly and into the FCP timeline ready to edit.

Couldn't be simpler.

Working on 2 million paid seats out there - Final Cut Pro is hands down the most used editing software system in the world right now.

So it's about as safe a bet as it comes - particularly if you're ever going to be looking to edit for someone elses business.

Your mileage may vary.
__________________
Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com
Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2010, 07:48 AM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Canopus edius pro, they still offer a cheap crossgrade option for a few days I think, I can handle DSLR footage with colorcorrection, multiple layers in realtime on my pc which is 3 years old. I convert all footage to the canopus HQ codec first which is also included in the package. Exporting canopus hq avi files back out (to teh same avi codec) is also very fast, on my Q6600 a 1 hour and 15 min movie took 16 minutes to render out. You only need to consider that you get sufficient hardrive space.

I paid 190 euro for the version without 3rd party software and for that price you get a pro software that is very usable on older pc's, something you can't say about adobe.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2010, 08:09 AM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
Final Cut Pro is hands down the most used editing software system in the world right now. So it's about as safe a bet as it comes - particularly if you're ever going to be looking to edit for someone elses business.
What does this say? Does it make any difference what software is most used and is it not a safe bet to use adobe CS5 production package f.i.? or any other NLE? It all comes down to budget and what works for you.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2010, 10:26 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
If by "handle" you mean place a clip on the timeline and play it back, then yes. If, on the other hand, you mean do an effective edit and finish, then I'd have to say no. At least not in the traditional sense.
It's not just CS5 but I know from experience that it's certainly possible to edit the native files in Final Cut Pro but it's really not ideal as it's not smooth scrubbing through the timeline so transcoding to ProRes is the best solution. You can even edit native files in iMove '09 quite well but it's simply not as smooth as if you edit the files after they have been transcoded to Apple Intermediate CODEC (AIC).

I have heard promises of native H.264 file editing with Avid MC5 & EDIUS 5 too but always just as with CS5, FCP & iMovie09 it appears that while it is possible it is by no means perfect & is always more desirable to transcode to a more suitable CODEC for editing. Perhaps in a few years time when processors are even faster than they are today it will truly be possible to edit the native files but until then we must all reconcile ourselves to the fact that whether it's Cineform or ProRes we really do need to transcode to an intermediate CODEC before editing.

Last edited by Nigel Barker; June 24th, 2010 at 04:57 AM.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2010, 10:37 AM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Nigel,

While I agree, there are two instances where I find doing basic editing with these native codecs very valuable.

The first is in quick-turnaround work. This could be broadcast news with things coming in from the field. Or it could be wedding stuff with a Same Day Edit. In both cases, doing a traditional import, cut, export is REALLY tough.

The other is in the field. On set, there are times I'd really just like to drop footage into the editor, hit play, and watch it play. I am ok if it stutters a bit. That doesn't bother me. I am usually checking scopes, and other things to make sure we've got what we need.

But back in the long-form edit suite, you better believe I'll be transcoding to get best performance.

Will MC5 play 5D/7D files natively? Yep. I've done it. Is it idea? Not by a long shot.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2010, 01:07 PM   #15
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
What does this say? Does it make any difference what software is most used and is it not a safe bet to use adobe CS5 production package f.i.? or any other NLE? It all comes down to budget and what works for you.
What this says is that if you want to fill a job for someone else using THEIR equipment, it makes sense to understand that more editing is done on Apple/FCP than any other editing system in the world.

If you're only going to edit your work on your own system, this doesn't mean anything.

If you're going to advertise yourself as an "editor" who is as likely to find themselves on a set on the beach in Maui in front of a MacBook Pro as in a cubicle in Santa Monica in front of an Avid suite - it makes sense to understand how widespread the use of particular tools are out there.

Nothing more than that.
__________________
Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com
Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon EOS Full Frame for HD

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network