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Old November 9th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #1
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Next step after 5D MkII?

I've been a 5D guy for a couple of years now, and I'm kind of tired of all the workarounds. With all the new cameras floating about, I'm starting to look at my next move. I had been waiting on Canon's big Nov 3 announcement, but at $20k, it's about 2x what I want to spend. Scarlet is closer with $14k, but seems like there is still a lot to buy after that, and it could be months/years before they ship something I order.

I was initially excited about the AF100/FS100 style, it's right in the budget, has the XLR onboard, SDI, looks/acts/feels more like a videocamera, but as far as I can tell, for either one, I can't use my Canon lenses unless I want some ghetto aftermarket solution.

I need:
Something with that lovely DOF look
On-board mic/line audio - would be nice if this was XLR, but I can live with 1/8" mini - but can I at least avoid the Beachtek/H4n box hanging off the camera?
To use my Canon lenses
Record continuously, or at least more than 12 minutes at a stretch

I'm in the sub $10k price range.

Any suggestions?
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Old November 9th, 2011, 10:58 AM   #2
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

I'm afraid you are pretty much SOL at the moment. Your choices as I see them are:

1. Stretch your budget and go for the Scarlet.

2. Wait until January when the Birger adapter which will allow Canon lenses to be used on the FS100/AF100 comes out.

I really don't think there is what you want at the price point you want at this time. That is why a host of people who have invested in Canon glass are calling for the adapter. For others, there is the Novoflex (Nikon) or LA-EA1 and LA-EA2 (Sony) but nothing for Canon that allows you to control aperture yet.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #3
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

Hmph.

I would consider selling my Canon glass and buying something else (I bought most of it used anyhow, I can't imagine I'd lose much), but I'd kind of like to keep the 5D for stills and the occasional video shoot - and don't want to have to own/maintain/lug 2 sets of glass.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 11:01 AM   #4
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

In the meantime, there is the 5D2 anti-aliasing filter. It doesn't change the workaround situation, but removes the moire.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 11:09 AM   #5
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

I've not had the moire problem, it's the audio workaround, the lack of a real viewfinder, can't connect a monitor and see on-cam, the h4n doesn't take a line level and screwed me recently...I just feel like the camera is the tool that is supposed to help me express myself, and it is not being that, it is the gatekeeper to creativity, and it's stopping me from expressing myself unless it is satisfied.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 11:55 AM   #6
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

Mike,

I don't blame you. I can't stand DSLR's for shooting video, just so many issues. But that look is sooo nice. I've got the FS 100 and it is just one SWEET video camera. I had no investment in still glass, so it wasn't a hard choice for me. However, now that I have it, I am waiting to hear more about the new Sony LA-EA2 and the upcoming Birger adapter before I buy glass. I don't want to invest in one type of glass and then find out that I should have went a different way, because of the features one adapter will give me. For example, I hear the Sony adapter may enable autofocus and smooth aperture on the FS 100 with Sony Alpha lenses. Also, for what it's worth, there is an MTF Canon adapter that will allow Canon glass to be used on the FS100 or AF100. I had heard it would come out before the Birger adapter, but haven't heard any time frame recently. I think it allows wireless control of the aperture (not 100% sure on this). So, as you can see, there is some uncertainty around some of this.

I bought the kit lens to get me by until I can figure out what kind of glass to buy. However, once you get an interchangable lens camera, you start wanting more and more lenses. The kit lens has a nice range, good auto functions, nice smooth aperture, and just incredible OIS steadyshot. And the images look REALLY good. However, it is pretty slow. So I wanted some faster glass to really give the 'pop' you can give to some shots with shallow depth of field. My solution was to buy a $25 FD to NEX adapter and some old Canon FD lenses off ebay. $20 for a 28mm F2.5. $55 for a 50mm F1.4 (this one got lost in the mail and I'm in the process of getting a refund and buying another one.) $60 for a 28-90 F2.8. Now I can 'play around' with some faster lenses while I wait for the adapters to come out and decide what direction I want to go. You WILL be able to use your Canon glass on the FS100 or AF100...you just may have to wait a little while for the adapters to come out. Actually, you could buy a 'dumb' adapter and use the Canon glass on the FS/AF100 right now. You'd just have to set the aperture on the Canon 5D, then switch the lens to the video camera, and the aperture would
stay at what you set it at. A workaround, but it IS possible.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #7
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

For audio, have you considered a juicedLink? With the DT454 you get a headphone output, so it can be used without starting Magic Lantern. Once it's attached to the camera or the rig, the only extra step is to turn the power on. And with headphones, you'll never forget to do that. No separate recording button. No syncing in post.

For monitoring, Zacuto makes a nice EVF. Put that on the side of the camera and you can have a well balanced unit. I'm not sure if the monitor includes a loop through. A loop through or a 3rd party distribution amp would solve the multiple monitor thing.

Of course, this is still modular and takes some time to put together. You can always buy/configure a case to hold a mostly assembled rig. If you go with Redrock for support, there's a nice clamp setup that can hold a tripod plate on the bottom of the shoulder rig. That's super fast for going between handheld work and a tripod/jib/slider/etc.

I can totally relate to setup time and discomfort in use getting in the way of creativity. But all setups need batteries to be charged, cards to be managed, gear to be lugged, tripods to be setup, cables to be connected and on an on. Let alone lights, props, script, location and whatever else the project needs.

But each person's needs are unique. I guess all you can do is identify the most limiting factors for your personal situation and work to remove them one at a time.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #8
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

What about the "redrock LiveLens MFT Active Lens Mount"
Redrock Micro - Live Lens MFT

Also haven't been following up, but What about using one of these new external recorders that are finally coming out?
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I was playing around with the 5d hack that allows clean hdmi out (full rez) a couple of months ago and it was close. I don't know if they've made any progress since then. Also read a post says the Gh2 is rumored to release a clean hdmi signal with the next firmware patch (dec), but I guess I kind of doubt it.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 12:19 PM   #9
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

Gabe, do you have any links to your work with the FS100?

Jon, I have a variety of workarounds to the problems you described... and that's my problem. When I set down my beta300a for the last time, I thought... I'll never miss this POS. And now... I miss it. Everything ran off a power tap, and it all took one battery. If you shot a beta tape, you could edit anywhere in the world. You could ship the tape to a client. Stick mic, wireless mic, lav mic, shotgun mic... hang it all off the camera. Plenty of room. All went in XLR. Set the audio levels... and if the interview gets heated, you could just nudge them down a bit. Walk shot from outside to inside? No problem - just ease that iris open as you walk in the door. Sure, the thing could hardly shoot indoors without 5k watts of light, but the camera was one unit. Not frankencamera. I've been using the 5D for two years now, and i LOVE the image. But the "everything's a workaround" lifestyle is killing me.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #10
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

Mike,


Here's links to two pieces I made just 'playing' around
with the FS 100 and the kit lens:


and

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Old November 9th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #11
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

Might be worth waiting for this:

http://www.dvinfo.net/news/new-canon...velopment.html

"Further details regarding the new EOS digital SLR camera currently under development, including the product name, specifications and scheduled launch date, have yet to be decided."

I'm guessing this new cam will solve some of the workarounds you're having trouble with. Not sure about the price yet.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 03:58 PM   #12
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

Josh, the word "DSLR" says to me the image will be the same, some bumps will be worked out, but it'll be largely the 5D/7D experience. Also "under development" says to me 6-12 months from the UPS man knocking on the door.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #13
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

You said the Zoom H4N doesn't do line in. I think it does if you use 1/4" jacks. I never tried it with mine but remember reading that it automatically switches to line in when you go with 1/4".
My Zoom died a few months ago and I replaced it with a Marantz PMD661, which is a little bit wider and a little thicker but goes a lot longer on batteries and has real line outputs instead of using the headphone jack.

I'm still quite happy with my 5DII and have done dozens of corporate videos with it as well as personal documentary work. My most recent documentary short was played off a Blu-ray at a film festival recently and looked great on a big screen. To me, the look of the footage and the low cost of the camera make it worth whatever hassles there in shooting with it. I don't have any problems with double system sound, but since getting the Marantz, I find myself using camera audio much of the time. I loop through the recorder to the camera with the recorder's line outputs and one of those cables with the pad to get to mic level. I put a -20db tone file in the recorder, play it to the camera and set the meters. Then the camera sound is calibrated to the recorder and any change I do in the recorder's gain is transmitted to the camera. I always double record just in case, because I don't trust those 1/8" cables. However, the sound quality is much better than when I used the Zoom the same way. I attribute that to line outputs versus headphone.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 04:43 PM   #14
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

I feel your pain! I was also disappointed with the Nov 3 announcements. Has me looking more seriously at the fs100 but I'm heavy on Canon glass too which I do use for stills. The 1Dx looks interesting as it is one heck of a still cam and they seem to have solved a bunch of the issues from the 7D/5D. It's a ways off though!
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Old November 9th, 2011, 05:02 PM   #15
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Re: Next step after 5D MkII?

I think you'll find your glass sells quickly and with a decent return. From my read, it's the hook that keep people waiting on Canon and missing out (IMHO) on spending efforts being creative by fussing with, as you called it, "the workarounds". I have a 5DM2 as a B-camera and I know what you mean. Ironically, my favorite piece of glass is the Sigma 50mm not Canon.

People seem to be enjoying the FS-100 and AF-100. There's some articles that indicate continues DSLR influence on the Canon product line. However, they have at least invested in writing the firmware for storing greater than 4GB files, on the C300 anyway.

Last edited by Les Wilson; November 9th, 2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: clarifying opinion
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