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Old June 30th, 2017, 01:12 PM   #16
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Re: New 6dii announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Steve Bleasdale: If you can put off your purchase for a few weeks you should be able to purchase 6DII's at far below main dealer prices. For example the 5D Mark IV is still going for 3349, down from 3600, but grey market from the well-reported Panamoz go for 2441 and are always in stock. If you prefer to get grey market via a UK dealer with a physical presence you can get them the next day for just 2519 from the equally well-respected Hdew.

Canon main dealers are only 12 months warranty whereas the two grey ones I mentioned are 3 years. Hdew apparently fixes any warranty repairs via a UK main dealer service facility anyway.

I have 5D IV's and 5DS-R's via grey and these can be registered with Canon Professional Services anyway. That hasn't been possible to do online when I've tried in the past but all I had to do was quote the serial numbers and invoice copies and CPN added the kit.

I added three Canon 600EXII-RT flashguns via Hdew a few days ago. These were 349 each instead of the usual main dealer 530. They arrived by 9am the next day and this time I was able to add them to Canon Professional Services entirely online.

I switched from Panasonic video cams to Canon dSLRs for video about a year ago once the 5D-IV's proved such a winner. Sometimes I use a 5DS-R for video as well. I use some older 5's with Magic Lantern so that the 30min max clip is circumvented, plus their firmware's ability to work manual focus via a small screen within a screen.

The articulating screen in the 6DII looks very useful - though I'm not sure if I'd be able to clip a Zacuto Z-Finder on it as I do sometimes with non-articulating cams. Meanwhile where there's a will there's a way and sometimes I use a metal cased pocket-sized mirror to check compositions in awkward positions:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The other biggie with the 6DII for me would be its 5 point body stabilisation for video.

I agree with you as regards 4k. It seems like a solution looking for a problem in my view. But if 4k is pushed as a "must have" it is bound to take over whether its worthwhile or not.

I might be more interested in 8k in due course principally because of the ability to crop. That works great with stills with the 5DS-R as its 50mp RAW (can give 8 different 10"x8" stills from each frame without any interpolation) means I don't really need to use long lenses any more.

I've nearly bought the GH5 and its little brothers lots of times but I'm just not finding these convincing. The GH5's articulating screen and unlimited file times are pluses but the robustness doesn't feel like it competes. In particular the Canon 50mm f1.2L and the Sigma 20mm f1.4 Art make the little Panny lenses like toys to me. I'll have to put up with heavy and edit in post with Mercalli if I just can't stabilise on the move enough compared to a little Panny G80.

Pete
Great points Peter... I have already ordered them so will continue, i also looked at the gh5, got a hold of one in Williamson's camera shop.
During filming not once did it stay in focus with the 12-35 2.8 lens on in the shop, so i gave it back within 2 minutes.
Yes there are fixes but more than not even the gh5 lovers will say the focus sucks.
Now my 80ds are amazing and with the vision tech profile the colours and footage are amazing, the focus amazing.
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Old June 30th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #17
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Re: New 6dii announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Steve Bleasdale: If you can put off your purchase for a few weeks you should be able to purchase 6DII's at far below main dealer prices. For example the 5D Mark IV is still going for 3349, down from 3600, but grey market from the well-reported Panamoz go for 2441 and are always in stock. If you prefer to get grey market via a UK dealer with a physical presence you can get them the next day for just 2519 from the equally well-respected Hdew.

Canon main dealers are only 12 months warranty whereas the two grey ones I mentioned are 3 years. Hdew apparently fixes any warranty repairs via a UK main dealer service facility anyway.

I have 5D IV's and 5DS-R's via grey and these can be registered with Canon Professional Services anyway. That hasn't been possible to do online when I've tried in the past but all I had to do was quote the serial numbers and invoice copies and CPN added the kit.

I added three Canon 600EXII-RT flashguns via Hdew a few days ago. These were 349 each instead of the usual main dealer 530. They arrived by 9am the next day and this time I was able to add them to Canon Professional Services entirely online.

I switched from Panasonic video cams to Canon dSLRs for video about a year ago once the 5D-IV's proved such a winner. Sometimes I use a 5DS-R for video as well. I use some older 5's with Magic Lantern so that the 30min max clip is circumvented, plus their firmware's ability to work manual focus via a small screen within a screen.

The articulating screen in the 6DII looks very useful - though I'm not sure if I'd be able to clip a Zacuto Z-Finder on it as I do sometimes with non-articulating cams. Meanwhile where there's a will there's a way and sometimes I use a metal cased pocket-sized mirror to check compositions in awkward positions:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The other biggie with the 6DII for me would be its 5 point body stabilisation for video.

I agree with you as regards 4k. It seems like a solution looking for a problem in my view. But if 4k is pushed as a "must have" it is bound to take over whether its worthwhile or not.

I might be more interested in 8k in due course principally because of the ability to crop. That works great with stills with the 5DS-R as its 50mp RAW (can give 8 different 10"x8" stills from each frame without any interpolation) means I don't really need to use long lenses any more.

I've nearly bought the GH5 and its little brothers lots of times but I'm just not finding these convincing. The GH5's articulating screen and unlimited file times are pluses but the robustness doesn't feel like it competes. In particular the Canon 50mm f1.2L and the Sigma 20mm f1.4 Art make the little Panny lenses like toys to me. I'll have to put up with heavy and edit in post with Mercalli if I just can't stabilise on the move enough compared to a little Panny G80.

Pete
Great points Peter... I have already ordered them so will continue, i also looked at the gh5, got a hold of one in Williamson's camera shop.
During filming not once did it stay in focus with the 12-35 2.8 lens on in the shop, so i gave it back within 2 minutes.
Yes there are fixes in some settings but more than not even the gh5 lovers will say the focus sucks.
Now my 80ds are amazing and with the vision tech profile the colours and footage are amazing, the focus amazing.
As i have all canon glass, 24-70 2.8 vc tamron, 70-200 2.8, 85mm 1.8, 17-55 2.8, this is the reason i have not bought the sony a7sii again. sony a7sii 2,000 pound then the cheapest good lens for sony 750, then another top lens at 1500 sent it way over the top.
I am comfy with canon, comfy with the brilliant auto focus system, i dont need 4k, so i am good. The low light on the 6dii will be great just like my other 6d sold.Keep the 24-70 2.8 iso 3200 will be brilliant as ikt always is with full frame. Cheers Steve
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Old June 30th, 2017, 05:39 PM   #18
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Re: New 6dii announced

The GH5 isn't for everyone. It'll be a dull World and internet forum if we all agreed on the best camera. :)

Now I love my GH5, but I agree AF sucks and yeah the lenses do look like toys. Some of them. Ironically I have a Samyang 10mm that doesn't and it has arguably the poorest quality. It's results that count not how a lens looks and at over a grand for some of my lens, it's an expensive toy for sure. Wish my own as a boy were that expensive. :)

The GH5 is quite sturdy, more than its size suggests. Years of abuse of my GH4 and it still delivers. I've dropped a few toy lenses and still they've worked and yet seen a Photographer have their bulky lens fall to the floor and suddenly it can't focus. The bigger they are....
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Old July 1st, 2017, 05:24 AM   #19
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Gary Huff View Post
The original Sony A7S.
Was the launch price two thousand dollars?

Besides that this is not a dSLR, and it is not a very good photographic camera - the Canon dSLRs are first photo cameras and secondary video cameras.

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Old July 1st, 2017, 04:13 PM   #20
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
the Canon dSLRs are first photo cameras and secondary video cameras.

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understatement of the year, well any of the last 5 or 6 years at least...
I can't believe they are still offering soft mushy, barely 'hd' footage in 2017 and folk are still buying it.
Canon are so frustrating - I've got a c100 and I have to use Sony and Panasonic as 'b' cameras because Canons dslr footage looks awful when cut with it. DPAF is great but not at the cost of image quality
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Old July 1st, 2017, 04:52 PM   #21
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Re: New 6dii announced

If I remember correctly my C100 experience, they have a dSLR-like profile, which *raises* contrast in order to intercut with DSLR cameras.

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Old July 1st, 2017, 05:18 PM   #22
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Re: New 6dii announced

but that is just going backwards - dumbing down the c100 and reducing its dynamic range using a standard picture profile in order for it to work with Canon dslr - and even then the sharpness difference is blatantly obvious. I am better off using an old Panasonic gh2 as a b camera which at least resolves a decent hd image, or if I need more dynamic range I use a Sony a6300. I have loads of Canon lenses and am having to use them on other manufacturers cameras because Canon haven't moved forward with their dslr video quality since the 5d mk2
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 09:41 AM   #23
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Re: New 6dii announced

Well, Canon still tries to segment the markets between stills cameras and video cameras.

Do you want 4K video, with cropping? Go to the 5D4 or the 2DX2. Or get the C300, seems to be the official line (if the XC15 isn't your taste). And pay for that with Cfast cards and huge files.

For my needs (primarily photos and some HD video), the 6D2 looks excellent on paper. Going to 1080p60 is a nice improvement compared to the current model.

N.F.
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 12:33 PM   #24
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post

For my needs (primarily photos and some HD video), the 6D2 looks excellent on paper. Going to 1080p60 is a nice improvement compared to the current model.

N.F.
I think for someone who shoots mainly photos and does some video, a Canon DSLR makes great sense. Canon clearly see their DSLR's as tools for Photographers, who are occasionally being asked to shoot some video. In that line, their 5D Mark IV stands as one of their top Professional tools for this and the 6D Mark II is basically for those who can't be bothered to pay for the 5D. Hence why they strip it of as many features they feel they can get away. Unusually it also means stripping back the ALL-I codec the Mark I had.

Since I shoot Video with the occasional photos, a camera that favours video over Photography is more desired, and in that Panasonic and Sony tend to lead the way there. Though neither are perfect, they get more things right with video than Canon manages in their DSLR line.
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 04:21 PM   #25
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Re: New 6dii announced

Note that the all-I codec was using 90 Mbps for 25 or so FPS.
If you were shooting at 60p, an all-I codec would need 180+ Mbps, which is not possible with SD cards.

A small omission is the lack of a headphone jack, which would permit monitoring the sound. But most serious videographers record audio separately, anyway.
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 04:27 PM   #26
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
If you were shooting at 60p, an all-I codec would need 180+ Mbps, which is not possible with SD cards.
That is not true, presently you can get SD cards with a write speed of 90MB/s.
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Old July 2nd, 2017, 07:13 PM   #27
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Note that the all-I codec was using 90 Mbps for 25 or so FPS.
If you were shooting at 60p, an all-I codec would need 180+ Mbps, which is not possible with SD cards.

A small omission is the lack of a headphone jack, which would permit monitoring the sound. But most serious videographers record audio separately, anyway.
N.F.
Aside from the fact that SD cards can handle that data as even my GH4 had a 200mbps option, there's the little matter that having 60p shouldn't necessitate crippling 30p codec. You can have 30p all-I and yet still have 60p and 30p at ipb. One doesn't preclude the other.

I agree about the seperate audio, but there are occasions I have needed to record audio internally. Why do you think those investing in say a C100 praise it over DSLRs for its XLR inputs. I've often used a H4N Zoom as my audio go between, and relied on the headphone socket to monitor its output into my cameras. As a B camera to say a C100, this omission is no deal breaker, but anyone using a 6D as an A camera for video might find it a potential problem.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 03:53 AM   #28
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Re: New 6dii announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Note that the all-I codec was using 90 Mbps for 25 or so FPS.
If you were shooting at 60p, an all-I codec would need 180+ Mbps, which is not possible with SD cards.
I think you are confusing the bitrate of a codec with the write and read speed of a sd card which is not the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
A small omission is the lack of a headphone jack, which would permit monitoring the sound. But most serious videographers record audio separately, anyway.
N.F.
You record your sound as close to the source as possible and that can be done with separate recorders which can be connected directly to your camera via a wireless system so a headphone jack can become a critical part on your camera. Professional cameras have a xlr module build in for that purpose. You can also put a shotgun on your camera for reference or ambient sound and being able to listen in to make sure you don't end up with no sound when the mike would die if it's a battery powered one is also critical to secure you get your sound. Those are just two examples I can think of where a headphone jack is much needed. Not providing that is intentional crippling the camera for video use.

I would rather say a that most serious videographers monitor their sound at all times.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 08:31 AM   #29
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I think you are confusing the bitrate of a codec with the write and read speed of a sd card which is not the same.
Unless I misremembered, the all-I codec requires 90 Mbps write speed, so it follows that double the frame rate would result in double the data rate.

Regarding headphone jacks, some shotgun mics like my Saramonic offer one on the microphone already (I think that some Rode do this, too).
Expecting a DSLR to offer XLR connectors etc sounds a bit much to me. The 6D2 is first and foremost a stills camera, don't demand that she offers things like zebra, C-log etc. This is not the market she is targeting.

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Old July 3rd, 2017, 09:00 AM   #30
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Unless I misremembered, the all-I codec requires 90 Mbps write speed, so it follows that double the frame rate would result in double the data rate.

Regarding headphone jacks, some shotgun mics like my Saramonic offer one on the microphone already (I think that some Rode do this, too).
Expecting a DSLR to offer XLR connectors etc sounds a bit much to me. The 6D2 is first and foremost a stills camera, don't demand that she offers things like zebra, C-log etc. This is not the market she is targeting.

N.F.
Nick, you seem to be taking pieces of arguments and throwing them back with counter arguments that make no sense. My point about C100 using XLRs was not to suggest I was expecting DSLR's to have such inputs, but to suggest only that internal audio recording can be desired by Professional Videographers and therefore not being able to monitor it can be an issue. Not for everyone. It depends what you're buying the camera for.

Equally Noa was making a point that SD Cards quote write speed in one format and the camera uses another. Here's something I have grabbed from a website that may explain things better:

"There’s a subtle discrepancy between how video bitrates and memory card write speeds are conveyed that can lead to some major confusion:

Video bitrates are described in Mbps— megabits per second– while memory card write speeds are measured in MB/s— megabytes per second.

Megabits (Mb), megabytes (MB) – what kind of difference can a bit of capitalization make? A big difference, actually.

1 Megabyte = 8 Megabits"

This being the case, a well classed SD Cards can handle 180mbps contrary to your initial suggestion.

I don't think anyone will argue the 6D Mark II isn't aimed for Photographers. I'm not critical of this camera for a lack of zebra, focus peaking etc. I'm more critical of the 5D Mark IV for lacking such features. When my 500 GX80 can allow focus peaking and zebra and the 5D Mark IV can't, you wonder why Canon even bother to target this camera to Video users.

Where the 6D Mark II falls short is in for its price, lacking a headphone socket (minor issue), no 4K and HD that still can't match up to the C100 based on what I have seen so far and others report on it. Canon could have done better and still kept it within its budget FF price range.
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