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Old July 3rd, 2017, 09:00 AM   #31
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Re: New 6dii announced

A 90MB/s rated SD card handles a 200mbps 50fps all intra codec just fine, I at least have no issues with it on my GH4. Remember that bitrates are in Mbps ( megabits per second) while memory card write speeds are in MB/s (megabytes per second.) and 1 megabyte = 8 megabits so a 200mbps codec actually only requires actually only 25MB/s rated card but that would be the absolute minimum. I tested the 200mbps 50fps all intra codec on a 30MB/s card and it also recorded fine as well. (I hope I have all the numbers right, if not then anyone feel free to correct me)

You can have several workarounds to monitor your sound, bottomline is, a camera that is designed to also shoot video should have a headphone jack to monitor your sound, it otherwise only forces you to find other solutions, it also shows that Canon's focus for this camera is on photography mainly with video as secondary purpose.

edit: lol; Steve beat me to it :)
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 04:51 PM   #32
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Re: New 6dii announced

Hello there,

The all-I codec uses approximately 685 Mbytes per minute of storage.

This translates to 91 Mbps required write speed on the SD card.
Reference: Canon Professional eXchange

So, if you push double the frame rate via the all-I codec, this will translate to approximately double the amount (180+ Mbps write speed required).

Clearer now?

N.F.
PS. I do not remember mentioning Mbytes per second in my previous messages
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 05:21 PM   #33
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Re: New 6dii announced

Unless I missed it, I didn't see you mentioning the 6D's 25p all intra codec was 685MB/min, that would have made things a lot clearer. In such a case I guess these would do: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...i_sd_card.html
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 08:22 PM   #34
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Re: New 6dii announced

I wrote:
Quote:
Note that the all-I codec was using 90 Mbps for 25 or so FPS.
If you were shooting at 60p, an all-I codec would need 180+ Mbps, which is not possible with SD cards
Remember that the 6D2 can use up to UHS-1 SD cards.

N.F.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 10:12 PM   #35
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
I wrote:


Remember that the 6D2 can use up to UHS-1 SD cards.

N.F.
So you're defending a Canon crippling of their camera by highlighting another crippling of their camera. Wow, that's a neat bit of work.

You're still making the same mistake in thinking that having all-I means having it for 60p. Is there some reason you can't get your head around the fact you can have it for 30p only and then ipb also for 30p and 60p. My very old and dust gathering GH3 had this option. Its not that difficult to implement. 30p all-I, 60p ipb. Its that simple.

If Panasonic followed your line of logic, it couldn't have a 10 bit 4:2:2 codec option on the basis the file size would be too large for 60p. But no, rather cleverly they have provided it for 30p but used 8 bit 4:2:0 for 60p.

Still here's me talking about a 1699 camera having 10 bit 4:2:2 4K in a thread about a 1999 camera that not only lacks 4K, but has HD that looks more like 720p than the 1080p it purports to be.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 02:39 AM   #36
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Re: New 6dii announced

Strewth, I'm reminded why I hardly ever bother to post in any forums these days. So many people get cross quickly about so many things. I never ever use social media as its even worse :- )

Anyway, I'm disappointed to learn that the GH5 is still suspect as regards auto-focus. I had imagined that some sort of proper fix or firmware would have solved it. Apart from that the GH5 is smaller and lighter than the 5 series but not that much smaller and lighter to make a real difference for me. I'm also on the fence because of its poor battery life and its possible need to add battery grips and XLR units.

I'll probably add a Panasonic G80 though as a locked off cam for tight spaces or when its vital that equipment does not intrude into the ambience. Some similarities with a GoPro for how to use. For example here is an old camcorder located on a window using a suction mount:
http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/826-de...ate-Surrey.jpg

Imagine trying to put a C300 on a tripod in the window bay area! Not going to happen.

Still a disappointment that the G80 and GX80 don't have unlimited times - still stuck at 30 minutes. Good that the GH5 has no limit though.

I shoot mainly event and weddings and I use multicam with 3 or 4 a lot. I can't imagine 4k being practical for that any time soon.

""You record your sound as close to the source as possible and that can be done with separate recorders which can be connected directly to your camera via a wireless system so a headphone jack can become a critical part on your camera. Professional cameras have a xlr module build in for that purpose. You can also put a shotgun on your camera for reference or ambient sound and being able to listen in to make sure you don't end up with no sound when the mike would die if it's a battery powered one is also critical to secure you get your sound. Those are just two examples I can think of where a headphone jack is much needed. Not providing that is intentional crippling the camera for video use. I would rather say a that most serious videographers monitor their sound at all times.""

I use standalone audio recorders routinely, usually Zoom H4n, H1's, and a tiny Olympus that may be taped to a venue mic. I also use three Sennheiser G3 wireless systems. I sync in post with Pluraleyes (may switch from Vegas to DaVinci).

However I've also used the Rode Videomic Pro recently onto Canon 5's and been pleasantly surprised. I bought one on an Amazon lightning deal at just 99 but didn't even try it for several months. Now I like them and i bought another on a deal at 139 which included a free Rode deadcat. They will always be backups except when they must be used but are much more usable that my Rode NTG2's because the latter are too long to avoid getting into shot if with a wide lens. The Videomic Pro is not XLR but so what - the lead is so short its irrelevant.

The Rode Videomic Pro has to be switched on - caught me out at first because the NTG2 has an AA battery which provides power automatically. Apparently its green light switches to red when the battery is a few hours from exhausting. The Videomic Pro is very tricky to changes batteries quickly :- (

This coming Saturdays wedding is with a very easy-going vicar - she even suggested to me at the rehearsal that I set up for video standing in the pulpit! Thanks but no thanks! However she will not take a Sennheiser lav kit so I'll be relying on the groom's lav and a few H1's hidden nearby (church's system is not accessible).

Tony Northrup's videos on all manor of things including video shooting are well worth watching. There isn't actual 6DII's being used as yet - too early - but the basics are handy:


Pete
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Old July 4th, 2017, 03:06 AM   #37
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Strewth, I'm reminded why I hardly ever bother to post in any forums these days. So many people get cross quickly about so many things.
Whose cross? :) It's called lively debate. What forums excel at. I've had people disagree with me and even learnt a thing or two from it. I agree some take things here too seriously, but I always place forum chatter in its proper context. Its no different than a group of lads arguing down the pub over which football team is the best. Though I think sometimes what is written can be taken out of context and viewed with more seriousness than intended. Some of my posts can be more tongue in cheek, but that's hard to convey sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
I'll probably add a Panasonic G80 though as a locked off cam for tight spaces or when its vital that equipment does not intrude into the ambience.

Still a disappointment that the G80 and GX80 don't have unlimited times - still stuck at 30 minutes. Good that the GH5 has no limit though.
My G80 is the one camera I find disappointing and plan to sell it once I have a 2nd GH5. One of the issues, though minor as a B Camera is no headphone socket despite having a mic socket. The 2 should go together. Clip limit is archaic and tolerable on the GX80 as its small size makes it useful. The G80 was not a winner for me. Its days in my kit bag are numbered. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
I shoot mainly event and weddings and I use multicam with 3 or 4 a lot. I can't imagine 4k being practical for that any time soon.
I shoot all my Weddings 4K (since 2015) and give the couples both HD and 4K files on USB. I typically run 4-6 cameras per Wedding. Mind, I know what you mean when one Wedding ran almost to 1TB, though most are in the 350gb to 560gb range. Alas I'm a 4K buff for my sins and just can't go back to HD filming.

I also do a same day edit of part of the Ceremony (10-15 mins worth) when this service is booked, editing 4 of the cameras on a small crappy PC and then outputting a 4K Video for my 4K TV that I setup in the evening for the Reception. I don't get too many of these requests though and just as well. I'm running out of hair as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
I use standalone audio recorders routinely, usually Zoom H4n, H1's, and a tiny Olympus that may be taped to a venue mic. I also use three Sennheiser G3 wireless systems. I sync in post with Pluraleyes (may switch from Vegas to DaVinci).
Much the same. Though I have a Panasonic Shotgun Mic and it was a great investment. No off switch or batteries and can be controlled via the camera. Oh how I was caught out so many times by shotgun mics that needed to be switched on. So it was worth the extra investment.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 04:01 AM   #38
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Re: New 6dii announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Still a disappointment that the G80 and GX80 don't have unlimited times - still stuck at 30 minutes. Good that the GH5 has no limit though.
In Europe at least Panasonic is the only manufacturer so far that has given us unlimited recording in a photocamera, neither Sony or Canon have bothered to do something about that silly EU law that limits recording times. I too would liked to have had unlimited recording on the G80 but at least the GH5 is giving us this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
I use standalone audio recorders routinely, usually Zoom H4n, H1's, and a tiny Olympus that may be taped to a venue mic. I also use three Sennheiser G3 wireless systems. I sync in post with Pluraleyes
The fact remains that we have to find workarounds for intentional crippling that manufacturers apply, it's not because there are other ways to record audio that it's ok to leave out a headphone jack, there are plenty of moments during the day I need the incamera audio and not being able to listen in what the camera is recording makes me nervous. On my GH5 I use a Tascam TM-2X which draws power from the camera battery so I don't need to think about powering it on or off, but in case you use a battery powered mike on camera you definitely need a headphone jack to make sure the battery doesn't die or that you forget to turn it on. Eventhough there are dslr mics that have a build in headphone jack it is something I consider a necessity on a camera when recording video.

Quote:
I shoot mainly event and weddings and I use multicam with 3 or 4 a lot. I can't imagine 4k being practical for that any time soon.
I could not do without 4K for multicam shoots, it's a Godsend for soloshooters for it's cropping ability. It gives me a multitude of framing options. I also have sold my first 4K package for a next years wedding, I charge 190euro extra for that and they get a 4K master on a 64GB usb stick. I still will deliver a HD file as well. As soon as 4K becomes a standard I most likely cannot charge extra for it but until then it's a nice paid add-on that hardly requires any of my time as I let my pc render during moments I"m not editing.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 05:53 AM   #39
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Re: New 6dii announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
So you're defending a Canon crippling of their camera by highlighting another crippling of their camera. Wow, that's a neat bit of work.
I am not defending something, just explaining why some things are not possible in the particular setup.

Quote:
You're still making the same mistake in thinking that having all-I means having it for 60p. Is there some reason you can't get your head around the fact you can have it for 30p only and then ipb also for 30p and 60p. My very old and dust gathering GH3 had this option. Its not that difficult to implement. 30p all-I, 60p ipb. Its that simple.
.
Then, many people would be complaining about the lack of all-I codec in 60p.
You cannot please everyone.

N.F.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 06:23 AM   #40
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Then, many people would be complaining about the lack of all-I codec in 60p.
You cannot please everyone.

N.F.
Not a good excuse to remove it in my opinion. The GH5 is getting all-I for 4K at 10 bit 4:2:2, but only for 25p/30p. I'm not complaining its lack in 50p/60p, even though it would be welcome. I certainly wouldn't want 30p all-I removed just cos the manufacturer can't give it to me in 60p. Be a bit silly.

Actually the video Peter posted addresses the shortcomings of the 6D, whist acknowledging its good points. For a model updated every 5 years, it feels like 3 years too late already with its current video specs. Still as you say, it's a Photographers tool really and not one designed to be taken seriously for video.

For Photography, the lack of a joystick and the focus points all bunched in the centre has irked some Photographers, as is the lack of dual card slots, which may have been a more welcome upgrade by Photographers than a flip screen. Itself welcomed by Video users. Its a curious beast the 6D that's for sure.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 09:18 AM   #41
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
For Photography, the lack of a joystick and the focus points all bunched in the centre has irked some Photographers, as is the lack of dual card slots, which may have been a more welcome upgrade by Photographers than a flip screen. Itself welcomed by Video users. Its a curious beast the 6D that's for sure.
Dual card slots in a 2.000$ (list price) full frame dSLR?
Please compare her to the Nikon D610 and D750 (and their prices), to see how Canon is positioning that particular body.

N.F.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #42
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Dual card slots in a 2.000$ (list price) full frame dSLR?
Please compare her to the Nikon D610 and D750 (and their prices), to see how Canon is positioning that particular body.

N.F.
Simply quoting what I've read of some Photographers issues with the camera; I can't comment on how realistic their expectations are, as I'm not a Photographer. I think the video mentioned it also.

I checked both cameras and they are cheaper and non fullframe I guess and yet both have dual card slots. Does being fullframe and costing more money preclude dual card slots for some reason. Sorry just not getting it. Then again, Canon needs to limit this camera or else it competes too much with the 5D Mark IV.

I must admit I agree with the video though that if you're a Professional Photographer, the lack of dual card slots would be a big negative. I worked with 2 Photographers who lost some Wedding Photos due to card failure. Couple weren't happy.

Still it sounds like you're happy with these limitations. Weird, the GH5 was considered quite revolutionary on its announcement for features at that price point. Yet I still complained about the Auto Focus. Don't let blind devotion to a brand make you ignore its weaknesses or else there's no incentive for them to innovate. Panasonic's inability to make a good working AF has been a long frustration with their brand. Something Canon does very well.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #43
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Dual card slots in a 2.000$ (list price) full frame dSLR?
Please compare her to the Nikon D610 and D750 (and their prices), to see how Canon is positioning that particular body.
N.F.
The Nikon D750 has a dual cardslot and is currently 1700euro after a cashback while the 6DII is 2130euro, ofcourse the 6DII price will go down after a while but still. From working with many weddingphotographers the past years beside the obvious 5dIII/IV/1DX the D750 is an equally popular camera, I'd say it's 50/50 between either Canon or Nikon used. Never saw a photographer use a 6D, not even as a B-cam.
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Old July 4th, 2017, 06:44 PM   #44
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
I checked both cameras and they are cheaper and non fullframe I guess and yet both have dual card slots. Does being fullframe and costing more money preclude dual card slots for some reason. Sorry just not getting it. Then again, Canon needs to limit this camera or else it competes too much with the 5D Mark IV.
Both the Nikon D610 and D750 are full frame dSLRs.
The D750 has 2.300$ list price, and dual card slots, while the D610 has been introduced at 2.000$ or so, and has a single SD card slot.
This is the competition for the 6D2, not the camcorders or mirrorless cameras.

N.F.
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Old July 5th, 2017, 12:15 AM   #45
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Re: New 6dii announced

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Originally Posted by Nick Fotis View Post
Both the Nikon D610 and D750 are full frame dSLRs.
The D750 has 2.300$ list price, and dual card slots, while the D610 has been introduced at 2.000$ or so, and has a single SD card slot.
This is the competition for the 6D2, not the camcorders or mirrorless cameras.

N.F.
Well if they're Canon competition, it only shows that Canon needed to up their game with the 6D. Especially as the D750 being a few years old is now cheaper than the 6D, meaning a full frame camera with dual card slots is less expensive to buy from Nikon than Canon can manage.

I think you've highlighted the real problem with Canon. They do only see Nikon as the competition. With Nikon perhaps not being in a strong position to put up much of a fight of late, Canon has become lazy and complacent. I'd love to see Nikon up their game a little more and then maybe Canon will get off their ass and stop crippling their DSLR cameras.
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