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Canon GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


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Old June 15th, 2003, 02:17 AM   #16
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After I posted, I did some hunting on Panasonic's website, and now I am pretty sure that the "new" tapes I have are the same as the old ones, with different packaging. Just in case anyone else is interested, I left out the 2 most important letters in the tape name, the "EJ". So the tapes I have and will be using are the "AY-DVM60EJ" tapes, probably the most basic consumer miniDV tape that Panasonic offers.

Whether this tape uses wet lubrication (which I am guessing it does, because supposedly, only one of the professional quality tapes uses dry) or dry, is now moot, since I won't be switching tapes.

But fyi, I also believe that Panasonic produces tapes with wet lubrications and dry lubrications. From following one of the links on Frank's page, I ended up on Panasonic's FAQ. It indicates that their master level tape uses dry lubrications vs the conventional wet.

Thank everyone for all the help,
Neal
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Old June 15th, 2003, 04:06 PM   #17
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I checked with two vendors (one a sponsor) and they both checked with Panasonic. What the Panasonic rep told them is that ALL Panasonic master tapes use the same lube (PQ and MQ). Whether these two checked with the same Panasonic rep or two different ones (they are on opposite coasts) I don't know.

It still would be really worthwhile to get the definitive answer out of these companies.....
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Old June 15th, 2003, 08:38 PM   #18
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Look at #17 and #20 on the FAQ on Panasonic's website.

http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/dvproline/DVworld_24qs.html
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Old June 15th, 2003, 09:25 PM   #19
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I'm just reiterating what the rep said - they are all the same, so they would all be dry. I originally asked the question of my tape pushers because I have been primarily using the AY-DVM63MQ (white cases, blue lids, Master series) and want to switch to the less expensive AY-DVM63PQ (black cases). I had already done some switching with no problems. Others on the board have also reported being able to switch between these two Panasonic tapes with no problems.

Unfortunately, there are more myths than truths out there regarding tape and tape stock. Even given my sources I don't claim it to be the corect answer. The only consistent thing I've been told is to avoid mixing Panasonic and Sony but I can't even say for sure that is the correct.
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Old June 16th, 2003, 01:56 PM   #20
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I have to correct my postings on this thread. I have gone back to the original emails and what they say are that the Panasonic MASTER series (MQ and PQ) use the same dry lube. No mention of the consumer grade Panasonic tapes. Sorry for any confusion.

As penance I'm trying to get answers out of some of the other manufacturers (TDK at the moment).
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Old June 16th, 2003, 07:59 PM   #21
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Thanks Jeff

I really don't know which way to believe. I just wanted to share that link to Panasonic's FAQ that I found through Frank's site. (Thanks Frank.)

Until I find out for sure one way or another, I will try to use the same tapes, my lowly Panasonic consumer grade tapes :-)

-neal
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Old June 16th, 2003, 08:08 PM   #22
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The only discrepency with Frank's site is the difference between the PQ and MQ tapes. I have a request into Panasonic to see if I can get yet another opinion. The Panasonic FAQ actually doesn't help one way or another. What it says is true but it doesn't claim that any of the other tapes don't use one lube or another. It just touts it on the Master series. While Panasonic pushes the dry lube aspect of thier Master tapes as being the difference, many of the other tape manufacturers in the table on Frank's site also use dry lube.

I've gone and re-read all of Frank's links plus others and it seems like the only consistent advice is don't mix Sony with anything else.

IF I hear anything from TDK, Fuji or Panasonic I'll post it here.
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Old June 20th, 2003, 11:52 AM   #23
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I've heard from TDK and they refuse to comment. They just say that if you switch tape brands run a cleaning cassette through first.

One source (Brian at Zotz Digital) says that only Sony and TDK are wet - the rest are dry.

Another source (Tape Resources) has a note from TDK saying that their lube is fluorine based and similar to Panasonics.

Now, I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that the liability risk to these companies is greater by NOT telling rather than being up front at least on the wet/dry issue. I suppose the only way for the companies to know it is safe is to try all the combination of tapes out there...

TDK also said to pick one brand and stick with it - always seems to be good advice unless you run out of tape in some small town who knows where and you have no choice...

This is clearly a case where the video magazines could do a really good job for the public and run some tests - or maybe they would have more success getting the specs out of the companies.

The only disagreement I have with Frank's dvfreak site is on the Panasonic PQ versus MQ tapes. Everything I've been able to find out agrees with his site on wet versus dry except that I've have two Panasonic reps report that PQ and MQ use the same lube. Still waiting to hear back from Panasonic directly though.
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Old June 25th, 2003, 11:04 AM   #24
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While I am normally opposed to class-action lawsuits (the lawyers get rich, the users typically get little) I'm beginning to wonder if that isn't what will be required to get the tape companies to fess up to what they are doing.

Think about it. You don't worry about head clogs from tape incompatibilities in your VCR, your cassette player, your tape backup device, your super-8/digital-8, dvcam or beta unit. Why should mini-DV be any different?

The problem with using tape from a different vendor and getting a head clog is the same as if you normally used Kodak film, tried Fuji once and ended up paying hundreds of dollars to get your camera fixed.

Worse is that the manufacturers won't even give any clue as to whether their product might be compatible! Their only advice (and one to live by for now) - buy one brand and stick with it (though even that may not be true). This seems to be anti-competitive. They aren't forcing you to use their brand but once you start....
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