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Canon GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


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Old June 12th, 2003, 01:27 AM   #1
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Green image? please help

I have had my XM2 for 4 days. I was very impressed at first but now I look over my footage I notice how everything has a greenish tint compared to real life. The problem is the worse on the preset outdoor and indoor WB settings. I can sort of dial the green out using the colour phase but it still doesn't look natural & looks undersaturated. I have tried changing everything and I cannot make the colours look natural. I compared it to my other cam, a sony trv30, and the sony has much more true to life colours. Is this a common XM2 problem? I have arranged to change this camera for another but before pay for the postage I thought I'd check if it's a "feature" of the xm2. Any help would be great.
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Old June 12th, 2003, 01:43 AM   #2
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Will,
This is not a common characteristic of the GL2 nor, most likely, the XM2. You may have a lemon.

On what are you reviewing your footage? The camera's LCD? Your computer? Camera connected directly to a tv?
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Old June 12th, 2003, 02:04 AM   #3
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Will, take Ken's 2nd paragraph requests seriously - really.

My 2 pennies worth are:

"Go back to basics"
Film in Easy Mode, and restart your observations from there. Also, setup your cammy on a tripod, connect to a TV screen and see what differnces there are between your other cameras. - I've learnt alot about my XM2 by doing some direct to TV experimentation.

"Record your standards for comparison".
You can also "put-up" your cammy's shooting info on the TV screen -neat! - While in this mode, you could record to VHS tape for reference and keep it as a your own "standard". Capture your other cammy's "standards" to it as well.

Ho! - Chris & Ken, any chance oor us to post "Problem" clips to a DVinfo VidClinic? - Hmmm...

Grazie
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Old June 12th, 2003, 03:25 AM   #4
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Hi, I'm viewing the footage on three different TVs. All very good sets and image has the same problem on all. Image on computer also is greenish. I've plugged Cam into TV and tried everything, same result. The more control I give to the camera the greener it gets. I think I may have a lemon. Green is not a good look! :)
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Old June 12th, 2003, 03:36 AM   #5
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Yuck! Nasty . . did you try Easy Mode, as a default? - Maybe you've had enough and just wanna get a replacement - eh?

Grazie
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Old June 12th, 2003, 06:16 AM   #6
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What was it Kermit the Frog sang? "It isn't easy being green"?

I think your tint may be a white balance issue. I had my XL1s throw a real green tint on a shoot, but that was also indoors under bad florescents.
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Old June 12th, 2003, 06:44 AM   #7
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Yeh, tried easy mode but result is the same. I feel it may be a WB problem but manual setting has same problem so I give up. But the outdoor and indoor preset is what I like to use most and they are so out it aint funny. I figure if the replacement has same problem I need to see optometrist!
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Old June 12th, 2003, 09:24 AM   #8
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Nnnyesss . . . I had a GReen field of Oil Seed rape - brilliant yellow? GO figure that? But, I think I WB to the field itself - nasty!

Grazie
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Old June 12th, 2003, 10:29 AM   #9
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Green Image (more)

I posted a topic yesterday saying I had problems with my footage looking greenish. I came across a website "Sony TRV900, TRV950, Canon GL2 image comparisons" with frame grabs showing each of the cameras. I notice the gl2 images have a greenish element also. Am I going blind? or is this how the XM2 just looks?

the website is
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/trv950/images1.html
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Old June 12th, 2003, 04:59 PM   #10
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Will, I understand what you are saying. There is a definite green tint on these pictures. Looking on the japanese site comparing few 3-CCD cameras, one can see light green bias on some XV-2 pictures:

http://www4.big.or.jp/~a_haru/0208_3CCD.html

However, some of TRV950 pictures and some MX5000 pics also have green tint.
To me it looks like white balance is not always consistent on any camera.
In any case, I don't think the green tint is something XM2-specific.
Do you always have geen bias in anything you shoot? If yes, something is probably wrong in your camera.
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Old June 17th, 2003, 11:33 PM   #11
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I am not exactly happy, but am a bit relieved after reading this thread. I noticed a slight greenish tint on my GL2 during playback yesterday and just about freaked out since I am on manufacturer warranty now.

The footage where I noticed the problem was taken outdoors under natural sunset light using manual WB. The colors were perfect except for a slight greenish tint to the blonde highligts in my subjects hair. Sun went down so I took the camera inside to test some shots under the flourecent lights in the kitchen and the green tint became worse.

I have had the camera for several weeks now and never noticed this before so I was still wondering what the hell was going on. Then I took the camera to a different room with good lighting and the image came out on my tv with perfect colors. Green plant next to white sofa and wall. No color bleeding or green tint on the white subjects.

Long story short: I still want to do some more testing, but I think the green tint is situational to the light source and can be corrected with a good understanding of how to use the manual/custom color settings. I wish I didn't have to mess with this, but I also cannot afford a $5,000+ camera.
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Old June 18th, 2003, 12:09 AM   #12
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Alex,
Thank you for following-up on this thread. I'm sure many folks will be able to take guidance from your remarks.

The "accurate" representation of colors in all video cameras is a function of many, many factors starting from the image source, leading through the camera's image processing circuitry then out to some display device, through your eyes and optic nerve and into your brain. Something can go "wrong" anywhere in this circuit.

I place "accurate" and "wrong" in quotes because, absent the use of instrumentation, the human brain is generally the judge of these qualities. Like a theater with poor lighting the wide variety of phosphors and color balance qualities used in consumer televisions, not to mention their generally poor calibration, often make the best of cameras look bad.

That aside, the higher quality cameras provide increasing opportunities to tweak the image. The GL2's adjustability stands just on the threshold of tweaker land with its sharpness, color phase, setup level and color gain adjustments. Use them if needed, but sparingly and with care. Personally, I believe that your greenish issues still lie in white balance adjustments. Practice, practice.

Good luck!
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Old June 18th, 2003, 12:35 AM   #13
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Thanks Ken, your input is helpful as usual.

What are your suggestions on setting manual white balance? Next to zooming in on a white wall indoors or packing around a white t-shirt in my camera bag for outdoors, I really don't know the best way to use the manual setting.

I don't like the indoor or outdoor presets very much, so I mostly use the manual WB or the auto setting (no WB indicator icon present).

Thanks, Alex
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Old June 18th, 2003, 01:24 AM   #14
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Using the camera's presets is preferable to using it's auto white balance. High-end video cameras such as Sony's DSR-570, have "shockless" auto white balance that gently change the image in response to continuous image samplings. Prosumer camera just change it right now, like it or not.

Carrying a known white card for manual balancing is -the- way to go. But it still takes a bit of practice and judgement to get an accurate manual white balance. Fundamentally, you must make sure that the incident light reflected from the card to the lens is representative of the light on your primary subject. Holding the card out of the light field may skew the results. Trusting an arbitrary "white" source can also be problemmatic. The wall that looks white to your eyes (which continuously white balance) may well not be white at all. (If you've ever tried to buy white paint at a hardware store you know what I mean.)

Since the GL2 provides for one stored manual white balance setting it would be prudent to use it for, say, flourescent lighting if you normally shoot under such lights. (Of course not all flourescent lights are of the same color.) That way the setting would be ready at-hand when you needed it. (This, by the way, is one area where the XL1s is ahead of the GL2 in that it provides for storage of more than one manual WB preset.)
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Old June 18th, 2003, 02:54 AM   #15
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. . . Ken, the penny is starting to drop.....

Grazie
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