True 25p on XM-2 (GL2 PAL)? at DVinfo.net

Jan Ewert · November 14th, 2003, 06:47 AM

Ok, so here's a discussion that has been going on on European boards for a while. It seems as if by switching the shutter speed on the XM-2 (the PAL version GL-2) to 1/25 while still in interlace mode will give you a true 25p image. To illustrate this I have these pictures online:

http://www.drachenauge.de/XM2-1-25.jpg

http://www.drachenauge.de/XM2-1-50.jpg

I think the difference is obvious. The problem in outdoor conditions is that you need a lot of ND filters because so much light is caught on the CCD. However, the look is great and nobody can tell me how it is technically achieved. Is this a true progressive mode?

Jan

Adrian Douglas · November 14th, 2003, 08:19 AM

The 1/25 image still isn't a true progressive image but due to the slower shutter speed the blur is enough that the interlacing appears to blend almost entirely. The 1/25 image sure does look better in the still shot and you will get a nice filmic look from the video as long as there isn't any fast action in the scene.

Are those shots yours, if so I like the lighting, it's quite eyecatching.

Jan Ewert · November 14th, 2003, 08:29 AM

Sorry to say that the pictures are not by me but by a colleague. I don't think the blurring explanation does the job - the girls on the 1/25 frame are not blurred at all and still there are no interlace artifacts on them.

Adrian Douglas · November 14th, 2003, 09:02 AM

It could be a result of the 25fps and the 1/25 shutter speed being equal. The bottom line is it is still interlaced which is evident from the lines in the 1/25 shot. If it was true progressive there wouldn't be any lines at all.

Jan Ewert · November 14th, 2003, 09:29 AM

I heard from someone else who saw these very pictures that since the only lines that exist are red it might well be an artifact of the DV compression.

Charles King · December 21st, 2003, 05:31 PM

" so here's a discussion that has been going on on European boards for a while "

Jan, what is the link to the european board ? Thanks

Frank Granovski · December 21st, 2003, 07:17 PM

Progressive captures 1 frame at a time; frame mode captures 2 fields at almost the same time via rapid shutter and interpolation. Progressive is "cleaner."

Richard James · December 21st, 2003, 07:57 PM

Anyone know for sure, what settings on the XM2 will get the best "film look". i mean, shutter speed, exp, and so on?

Is it frame mode with 1/25 shutter? i supose it depends a lot on light and so on... anyone that has tested all modes, and played around on the xm2 a lot have a final thought on which gives the best look?

Thanks

Jan Ewert · December 22nd, 2003, 08:37 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles King :
Jan, what is the link to the european board ? Thanks -->>>

The discussion I followed was in German so it probably won t be helpful to many of you but here it is:
http://216.127.95.21/47332

Charles King · December 22nd, 2003, 08:44 AM

Thanks Jan

November 14th, 2003, 06:47 AM	#1
Jan Ewert Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 4	True 25p on XM-2 (GL2 PAL)? Ok, so here's a discussion that has been going on on European boards for a while. It seems as if by switching the shutter speed on the XM-2 (the PAL version GL-2) to 1/25 while still in interlace mode will give you a true 25p image. To illustrate this I have these pictures online: http://www.drachenauge.de/XM2-1-25.jpg http://www.drachenauge.de/XM2-1-50.jpg I think the difference is obvious. The problem in outdoor conditions is that you need a lot of ND filters because so much light is caught on the CCD. However, the look is great and nobody can tell me how it is technically achieved. Is this a true progressive mode? Jan

November 14th, 2003, 08:19 AM	#2
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	The 1/25 image still isn't a true progressive image but due to the slower shutter speed the blur is enough that the interlacing appears to blend almost entirely. The 1/25 image sure does look better in the still shot and you will get a nice filmic look from the video as long as there isn't any fast action in the scene. Are those shots yours, if so I like the lighting, it's quite eyecatching. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

November 14th, 2003, 09:02 AM	#4
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	It could be a result of the 25fps and the 1/25 shutter speed being equal. The bottom line is it is still interlaced which is evident from the lines in the 1/25 shot. If it was true progressive there wouldn't be any lines at all. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

December 21st, 2003, 05:31 PM	#6
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	" so here's a discussion that has been going on on European boards for a while " Jan, what is the link to the european board ? Thanks __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

December 22nd, 2003, 08:44 AM	#10
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	Thanks Jan __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

November 14th, 2003, 08:29 AM	#3
Jan Ewert Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 4	Sorry to say that the pictures are not by me but by a colleague. I don't think the blurring explanation does the job - the girls on the 1/25 frame are not blurred at all and still there are no interlace artifacts on them.

November 14th, 2003, 09:29 AM	#5
Jan Ewert Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 4	I heard from someone else who saw these very pictures that since the only lines that exist are red it might well be an artifact of the DV compression.

December 21st, 2003, 07:17 PM	#7
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Progressive captures 1 frame at a time; frame mode captures 2 fields at almost the same time via rapid shutter and interpolation. Progressive is "cleaner."

December 21st, 2003, 07:57 PM	#8
Richard James Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: England, london. Posts: 31	Anyone know for sure, what settings on the XM2 will get the best "film look". i mean, shutter speed, exp, and so on? Is it frame mode with 1/25 shutter? i supose it depends a lot on light and so on... anyone that has tested all modes, and played around on the xm2 a lot have a final thought on which gives the best look? Thanks

December 22nd, 2003, 08:37 AM	#9
Jan Ewert Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 4	<<<-- Originally posted by Charles King : Jan, what is the link to the european board ? Thanks -->>> The discussion I followed was in German so it probably won t be helpful to many of you but here it is: http://216.127.95.21/47332