ski video wind noise at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon GL Series DV Camcorders

Canon GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 10th, 2004, 11:51 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 38
ski video wind noise

New GL2 for ski videos. Skiing alongside athlete have had a lot of windnoise in the past with small miniDV and Hi8. Do the fuzzy windsocks work very well, or is better to use windscreen setting in GL2, or both?

Anyone have any suggestions for ambient sound coming from my skiis while filming?
__________________
Frank
Frank Chang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 12:20 AM   #2
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Rycote makes a windscreen for the GL2 and it certainly helps, although it cannot completely eliminate strong wind. Using an external mic with a better windscreen would be a better solution.

Perhaps the bigger question, however, is what sound are you trying to record while sliding down a mountain? Perhaps adding it in post might be a more effective solution.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 12:59 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 38
I am filming disabled children learning how to ski. There is dialog from specially trained instructors and the children, and frequently dialog between myself and the children, and dialog between the disabled children themselves. We have children athletes at various levels from first timers to young adults who are on the US national paralympic team who competed in Salt Lake City Olympics 2002 representing the US, Lillehammer Norway, Sydney Australia, etc., and will compete in Tureno Italy in 2006. We have helped to train a number of Disabled children over the years who have become olympic athletes. I am trying to capture the spirt of the lessons (and experience) to demonstrate how this helps the self esteem and self confidence for these physically disabled children who can become olympic athletes or just better functioning adults with the experience they are gaining. These videos are used in local, national, and international medical seminars.

I have about 50 children on the mountain every Saturday so remote micing would be very difficult plus we are trying to capture the voices of multiple individuals having a conversation while skiing.

I have 15 years of archived video of these children so the progression from first day skiing to competing in the Olympics is also very inspiring. My videos have been very amateur in the past but I am trying to improve the quality.

Sorry for the long post but I have passion for this project.

Frank Chang, MD
__________________
Frank
Frank Chang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 01:06 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 38
Ken,
I purchased the Rycote windscreen with the GL2 (got the GL2 yesterday) and will try to gain real experience with it on the mountain. While using it do you or anyone think I should also use the windscreen setting in the GL2 or not?

What type of external mic and windscreen do you recommend?
__________________
Frank
Frank Chang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 01:18 AM   #5
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Frank,
That sounds like one terrific project.

So, if I'm understanding the situation accurately, a boom operator would not be feasible. Nor would wireless lav mics, due to the broad ranging coverage required?

Well I guess that does put the mic back on the camera, in which case I would recommend using a camera-mounted shotgun mic with a good Rycote windscreen (and an XLR adapter). Your goal in improving your sound coverage is essentially to reduce extraneous noise. Wind protection provides part of that. But sound field reduction provides another, very important, part. By that I mean you want to avoid picking up much of the sound around you and get good coverage on the interaction between the children and their instructor. That's what a shotgun mic will help you to accomplish by narrowing the angle of sensitivity.

I am still a little puzzled by how you manage to shoot your subjects while skiing along side them. It seems like a hazardous undertaking. But I am not a downhill skier myself and, after all, it looks like you're a doctor!
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 01:26 AM   #6
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Frank,
(I think we co-posted.)
I do not recommend the windscreen setting on the GL2 if you are using a Rycote. The electronic version of windscreen essentially attenuates certain low frequencies of sound (the rumble of wind past the mic). It can be very helpful in the absence of other measures but it can also flatten your sound a bit.

There are many good shotguns at varying prices. The Sennheiser ME66 (and K6 power module) is a bit of a defacto standard. But there are many others. (Scan through the Now Hear This forum for more opinions on mics.) Sennheiser also makes a relatively inexpensive shotgun mic, the MKE300, that mounts directly to your GL2's shoe, requires no XLR adapter, is powered by a watch battery, and comes with its own foam windscreen. It's relatively inexpensive, too. I have one and have used it for occasional casual outdoor shooting. It's not Hollywood but, ya know, it's really not bad at all!
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 01:39 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 38
Thanks for your time and responses Ken,

I'll try the Rycote without the electronic windscreen.

I'm on my own with the video project and we are truly filming while we are skiing. I am filming from the back, along side and skiing backwards to get frontal shots. Sometimes at quite high speeds through gates on a race course, though not backwards at high speeds.

Any experience or feedback with the Canon DM-50 directional shotgun mic. Seems the simplist as it syncs and is powered by the GL2 smart hotshoe. Keeping the whole setup the least complicated and bulky is an advantage since I'm skiing (sometimes backwards) while filming.
__________________
Frank
Frank Chang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 01:41 AM   #8
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
I've no experience with the DM-50 but others have. It's certainly worth a Search here.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 01:51 AM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 38
I did a search with mixed reviews, some like it and some do not. Seems the biggest plus is the simplicity. Apparently no third party windscreen available.
__________________
Frank
Frank Chang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 02:03 AM   #10
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently)
Posts: 837
Hi Guys,

Just wanted to comment that while the DM-50 will do the job of giving you a short range hyper-cardioid "mini shotgun" pickup pattern on top of your GL2, the frequency response of the DM-50 may be somewhat narrower than what you might be expecting. It's a good solution for qickly capturing intelligible dialogue which is occuring close to the camera, but it does not have the reach of a Sennheiser ME66, nor does it have the more full-bodied tone and bass response of the ME66. The DM-50 is certainly much lower profile than the ME66, more affordable and a bit easier to deploy than the ME66. However, you would ultimately prefer the fuller sound and longer reach that the ME66 provides.

Also, bear in mind that any hyper-cardioid "shotgun" microphone will perform best within a 90-degree radius directly in front of the front of the mic, up to about 2-4 feet. Once you go beyond the intended pickup pattern of a hyper-cardioid, it will tend to perform like an omni-directional mic, yielding a more "open" sound with more ambient sound.

Seems to me that you need a mixture of a couple wireless omni lavalier mics mixed in with a long hyper-cardioid shotgun mic. Unfortunately, it seems that your reality dictates that you have to capture everything by yourself. Youv'e got two channels to work with. Perhaps using one wireless omni mic and one top-mounted Audio Technica shotgun is worth considering.

- don
__________________
DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC
Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant
http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html
CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org
and also http://fcpugnetwork.org
Don Berube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 02:04 AM   #11
Retired DV Info Net Almunus
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,943
Here's the Sennheiser MKE300 at B&H Photo. It is not bulkier or heavier than the DM-50. A very short cable leads to the GL2's Mic port.
__________________
Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission.

Hey, you don't have enough stuff!
Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really!

See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com
Ken Tanaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 02:07 AM   #12
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently)
Posts: 837
Great suggestion Ken. How about using that Sennheiser MKE300 on one channel and a decent wireless omni lav mic on the other channel?

- don
__________________
DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC
Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant
http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html
CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org
and also http://fcpugnetwork.org
Don Berube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2004, 02:19 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, Co
Posts: 38
Thanks for the great and instantaneous feedback Ken and Don.

Hyper-cardiod is beyond my comprehension tonight. I'll try to educate myself further tomorrow.

Does anyone ever sleep around here? It's after 3AM for Don and 2AM for Ken?

I going to bed as I made hospital rounds at 6AM the skiied and videoed all day.

Good night, I'll catch up and view my first GL2 videos in the AM.

Frank
__________________
Frank
Frank Chang is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon GL Series DV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:44 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network