Azden SGM-1X Shotgun on GL-2 - INFO
 

A contribution if you will – clearing up some questions about using the Azden SGM-1X shotgun microphone on the GL-2.

I have learned a great many things over the past six months here on the forum. I think I’ve finally got a half way useful bit of info that I’d like to share – always happy to contribute to a good thing.

I purchased my GL-2 about 5 months ago, and quickly agreed with the reviews that the onboard microphone, quit frankly, isn’t usable. Sounds like the sound is recorded inside a beer can, and that’s unfortunate given the extreme high quality of the images recorded with this camera.

I set off to figure out what shotgun mic to purchase. It was way more complicated that it needed to be. I saw my same questions asked various times on the forum, but never got a clear answer. I wanted to address and answer these questions directly as I now have a couple months of hands-on experience.

Q: HOW DOES IT SOUND?

A: I’m no sound expert, but I do know pleasing sound when I hear it. It is leaps and bounds above the onboard mic of the GL-2 - Both in directionality (rejection off axis sounds), and in overall sound quality. The sound is quite deep and warm sounding. I’ve not heard the ME66 or other higher end mics, but this mic is very pleasing to my taste. For the price, it’s well worth the upgrade. I can’t shoot without now.

Q: WILL THE MIC, MOUNTED ON THE HOT SHOE WITH THE SUPPLIED SOUND MOUNT, CLEAR THE FRAME WHEN ZOOMED TO THE MOST WIDE ANGLE SETTING?

A: It most certainly will. The mic can be slid forward and backward somewhat inside its sound mount. When at the most comfortable and obviously balanced position, I went full wide angle to see if the mic would hang into the frame. Even with the supplied foam windscreen, I had to extend a pencil about 1 inch beyond the furthest edge of the mic before it entered the top of the frame. Rest easy. The supplied mount works fine with this mic.

Q: HOW DO I HOOK IT UP TO THE GL-2 WITHOUT A MIXER OR ADDITIONAL XLR ADAPTOR?

A: Thanks to a post here on the forum, I found the perfect accessory to plug in the mic. The Shure A96F transformer – a $35 item, XLR on one end and stereo mini on the other, plugs right into the mic port on the GL-2. If you stick with a short length, I have been told that a straight XLR to mini adaptor will still work fine with no degradation of sound quality. Though many could probably show stats otherwise, it is my understanding that having a true balanced input is only require for longer cable lengths, and the short 1 ft. adaptor you will use for this purpose won’t have much effect if unbalanced.

Q: WHERE DO I GET THIS STUFF?

A: Check out DVI sponsor B&H. Don’t business w/ them many times and have always been happy. Here are the links:

Azden SGM-1X:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=238826&is=REG

Adaptor:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=154878&is=REG

Hope someone finds this info useful. Thanks for everyone for helping me get situated w/ my own questions over the past few months!

-Kevin

An Answer to my questions
 

Thank you Kevin, like you I have been pulling my hair out lately trying to find an inexpesive reasonable quality shotgun mic that could be connected to the XM2 in my case, without having to buy the MA-300 XLR adaptor just yet.

I will now have a good look at this mic and plug and let you know what I think.

Regards, Cliff Elliott

Kevin, thanks for the post, I have been looking into getting a mic for some time and you have hit the nail on the head for me, and helped me make up my mind.

Kevin,

Why did you decide on the Shure instead of the cheaper Hosa adaptor? Is an impedance transformer required when hooking the SGM-1X to the GL2?

BTW - Videomaker Magazine also liked SGM-1x. (Note: If you need a password to view the article you can find one in the current issue of Videomaker Magazine. My March '04 issue lists SOUNDTRACK as the password.)

if I'm making semi professional shorts would this be a good shotgun mic??

If someone gets the Hosa adaptor I'd like to hear how it works out. With non-XLR setups using inexpensive mics, the only way I have been able to get hot (strong) audio levels into the GL2 (and my older Optura Pi) is to match the output impedance of the mic to the input impedance of the cameras (600 ohms). I noticed that the shure steps up the output imedance from the mic to 2,500 ohms. This is the same as a sony mic I have that delivers audio levels lower than the onboard mic. On the other hand the SGM-1X outputs 600 ohms so if the Hosa just passes that on, would one get a hotter audio to the camera than with the Shure?

I guess at $10 its cheap enough to find out, so at some point I'll borrow a good mic and try it if someone else doesnt post their results.

I whole heartedly agree, I just got the sgm-1x for my gl1, along with the studio 1 xlr adapter and could not be more pleased.

Rick

Although the Canon GL series is designed for 600 ohm mics (considered low Z or low impedence), their input impedence is far higher, on the order of 3 - 5 times higher for most devices. The manuals don't list that, but it's probably around 2 - 3 Kohms; they do, however, reference their specs to using a 600 ohm mic.

If you have a 1000 ohm Shure mic, it's a high impedence mic so it would require a far higher input impedence than the GL series have. This is where an impedence matching transformer is used, which would convert the high impedence mic signal to a low impendence signal suitable for the camcorder. Otherwise you would notice a lower mic level and end up getting more hiss from having to push the recording levels up.

Mics with XLR connectors are balanced, whereas the camcorder inputs are usually unbalanced (a giveaway is to check for an XLR input, like the XL's have). It is true that if you are using a cable less than about 20 feet long and aren't in an interference prone area (computer monitors, flourescent lights, etc) than you can use any XLR type balanced low impedence mic for an unbalanced camcorder input by building (or buying) and XLR to 1/8" (usually stereo) adapter; no transformer is needed. Longer runs, you'd want the transformer.

Condenser vs dynamic is another consideration; if your mic requires a battery or a mixer's phantom power, it's a condenser and it will have a hotter output than an unpowered (dynamic) mic. Depending on your uses, dynamic mics work fine like in handheld interview type usage. If your shotgun micing or wired lapel micing, you'll probably be better off with the condenser.

I recently switched from using an MXL603s condenser mic with AC powered phantom power supply to the Azden SGM-1X and it's a lot easier to use the battery than find an AC plug somewhere <G>. I think the sound quality is quite good for the money, better than the onboard, and tighter than my old MXL (it was sub-cardioid, 170 deg pickup range vice the Azdens 120 degree pattern).

Hope this helps,
Jeff

Just adding my own 2 cents...
I also use a SMG-1X on my GL2 and it's been working great.
Even mounted directly to the accessory shoe on the camera, it never gets into frame.

For the connection, I just used a XLR cable I had left over from my band days, and used the second wiring diagram on this page to make my own adaptor with a $1 mini plug from RadioShack.

Whole assembly works great.

Have fun.

What capacitor did you use?
 

Nick,

Thanks for the link, but the schematic does not specify the type or value of the capacitor? What did you use?

Ming

Jeff thanks for the details re mic impedance. I never could figure out why the books warned against matching impedance yet 600 ohm mics seemed to work best into the 600 ohm input on Canons.

Actually, I didn't use a capacitor, knowing that the GL2 doesn't supply phantom power through the mic jack.

:)


Other camcorders might, so I can't use the wire without checking, but I've got no plans on getting another mini-jack camera. If I get something else in the future, it'll have built in XLR connectors.

Have fun.

The SGM-1X seems to be a perfect match for me too.
But, I was checking it out with the Shure SHA96F on the B&H site to see what it would cost to have it sent to Sweden (haven't found it here yet, but I will do some more checking later) and I got a International Manufacturers' Restrictions on it.
It seems B&H can't ship the Shure to an international destination.

Any ideas why? I'm new when it comes to audio so it may be because of something simple as incompability of some kind?

Living in the Netherlands makes it impossible to buy this shure adaptor. Does anybody have any idears about using just the this simple Hosa cable

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=AYpxTfPDMI!-547533734?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=158476&is=REG

Also, who is able to post some sound samples of this Azden SGM 1X (or 2X) microphone, so we can hear this microphone.
In The Netherlands I have not found any store that sells this Azden microphone (so I have nu clue how it sounds)

Thanks

Gabriel

Shure-
 

Will this adapter work with a Canon GL1? Also, I have an old Sony TRV340 will this adapter connect to it. I would be using it as a boom mic on a pole.

Please advise

It should. I have a GL1 and I built a homemade one that's the same as the Hosa as far as I can tell. It's the same wiring as the schematic posted a few replies ago minus the capacitor. I'm pretty sure the Hosa brand one is straight wired, no capacitor, but even if it has one it wouldn't hurt anything.

Jeff

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Gann : I whole heartedly agree, I just got the sgm-1x for my gl1, along with the studio 1 xlr adapter and could not be more pleased.

Rick -->>>

I'll jump into this thread and agree with the above post. I purchased a GL2 & SGM-1x a few months back and I have been very happy with the sound it has reproduced. The studio 1 xlr adapter made it a snap to connect the mic to the camcorder. The shotgun mic is purched just out of view of the frame on top of my GL2, so I have not had any problems with it dropping into view.

I highly recommend it to anyone looking to get good sound for their projects without breaking their bank. I'm about to use my setup on a no budget short of mine!

I'm about to buy the SGM-1X also, but am still somewhat confused on the adapter I should buy. Like others here, I'd rather buy the cheaper Hosa adapter. Is the more expensive Shure transformer adapter really necessary?

Eventually I will be buying the XLR adapter, but for now I just need to use the mic with a mini plug adapter.

Someone please tell me there's no reason not to buy the cheaper Hosa adapter :)

Chris,
Your GL-2 should be the same as the GL-1 as far as not passing phantom power through the mic jack, therefore internal capacitors in your adapter are not necessary but also won't cause any problems. The difference between the Shure and Hosa model is the impedence matching transformer and DC voltage-blocking capacitors.

If you are using the Azden mounted to the camera or on a boom pole with <20 ft of cable you should be fine with the Hosa. You can even go longer, depending on how much interference there is in the area (I've gone 30-40 feet in good conditions).

The SGM-1x is a 680 ohm mic and the GL-1(2) mic input is designed for a 600 ohm mic input. Therefore, no impedence matching transformer is required. Also, although all XLR mics are balanced output the GL series does not use balanced mic inputs; both the Hosa and Shure adapters convert the balanced mic output to unbalanced for the camera's mic input.

For longer than 20 ft runs you usually run into the signal loss and interference concerns associated with unbalanced cabling. For these longer runs you would want the Shure adapter. Why? Because the Hosa adapter will make a balanced XLR cable act like an unbalanced cable, regardless of whether the XLR cable portion is 1 inch or 100 feet, since there's no transformer in the Hosa.

The Shure, on the other hand, will only be unbalanced from the internal transformer to the camera (a foot or so), even if you have the Azden connected to it with a 100 foot XLR cable. The Shure will also be a better impedence match if you ever get a true low impedence microphone. Nominal impedence for a low impedence mic is 150 ohms, although it varies; the Azden's 680 ohms would still be considered low, but most professional microphones are closer to 200 ohm range. From what Shure says, it's designed for a 600 ohm mic input, but can be user-modifed internally for a 150 ohm mic.

Basically what this means is that as your microphone impedence drops (say from 680 to 150) your mic signal will drop slightly, but the Shure would boost that back up a bit by you modifying the internal wiring from 600 to 150 ohm setting. That being said, before I got the Azden, I used to use a 200 ohm MXL-603s cardioid condenser instrument mic with an inline AC powered phantom power supply and a straight XLR to 1/8" cable just like the Hosa with absolutely no problems achieving sufficient levels.

Bottom line to all of this rambling <G>?; if you get the Azden I would start out with the Hosa unless you're planning on having your mic farther than 20 feet from the camera on a regular basis. You can always upgrade to the Shure at a later date if you really need to.

Hope this helps,
Jeff (slow day at work) K.

Is the Azden a stereo mic?

No, it is a mono mic and the SGM-2X is mono too.

There is a "mono in", "stereo out" 1/8" adapter plug from Radio shack. Mono from both audio channels of the GL2 will be louder than a mono plug going into a stereo GL2 input. You will only hear one channel. You guys know the GL2 has a stereo input right?

<<You guys know the GL2 has a stereo input right?

Yeah, all the adapter configurations that have been mentioned have a stereo 1/8" connection for the GL-1(2) input. The XLR output from the mic will be balanced mono converted to unbalanced stereo (simply the mono signal sent to both left and right stereo inputs of the camera input).

Jeff

Thanks, missed that. Those balanced and unbalanced terms were going over my head and I overlooked the stereo mini in Kevin's first post. My A69F transformer cable and the Shure Shotgun should arrive today. I have a wedding comming up in May. I also have a Panasonic PVDV953 cam comming to be with my GL2. But I notice Panasonic has even cheaper 3 chips on their site.
I was surprised to see one listing for $699

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&catGroupId=11303

Incidently B&H sells this cam also. It even has an external mic input, although not sure if it is stereo.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=314960&is=REG

Keep in mind the chips in these cams are not as low light sensitive as the GL2.

How are you guys getting the links that you post clik-able?