GL2 Review- Comparison with XL1s, PD150 - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon GL Series DV Camcorders

Canon GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 6th, 2002, 11:28 AM   #16
New Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 6
Great start at a comparison Barry! I find the XL1s to be slightly oversaturated in the reds as well but it is easily toned down with a manual WB. Just a quick question about a couple of vids on your site. The Uncollected vid was shot on an XL!s correct? Was the JND vid shot on the same camera? Run Kaori Run was shot on an XL!s too? I too have used a GLIDECAM on occasion and prefer a stedicam but cost can be a factor!

After using a PD150 for a cooking show that will go to broadcast, I must say I am impressed by the picture but would you not agree that the XL1s has that overall less harsh video look? Everyone wants the film look these days or at least something comparable to it for a fraction of the cost! What is your PERSONAL camera of choice?
Cheers
JD
John Dynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 12:34 PM   #17
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Södertälje, Sweden
Posts: 59
Canon should thank you, Barry!

Thanks, Barry, for taking the time to do this comparison. Canon should also thank you as it seems I'm not the only one who was convinced to order a GL2 (this morning) based at least somewhat on your reviews!

Anxiously awaiting my GL2.
Rob Unck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 05:05 PM   #18
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 21
I liked JND!

Nice video, great band.

http://www.jndlive.com/buzz.htm
Steve Garfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 08:15 PM   #19
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
JD-

Yes, Uncollected was shot on the xl1s, but the JND video was shot on the gl1, with a rather unorthodox lighting situation( this was also before I knew anything about the auto gain control). I think the one on their website plays a little better. (see steve's post). The Run Kaori Run video was shot on the gl1 as well. If you check the "gl2 flicker" thread you'll see that I developed a problem that is evident in the clip, but I really like the smaller camera on the glidecam, so I'm anxious to balance out the gl2 and strap that baby on.

Regarding the PD 150, xl1s issue...Personally I think the picture quality of the pd150 is less harsh than the xl1s...the highlights seem a lot more delicate...but if you mean frame mode versus the PD150's interlaced look...I'm in complete agreement...thats why I own the xl1s.

Personal favorite now--Gl2...future...XL2...I like the smoother zoom, larger form factor, controls, and modularity of the XL series...I just wish they'd fix the lens, the auto focus, and bring the resolution up to snuff.

Barry
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 10:09 PM   #20
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 42
GL2 Questions

Hello everyone...

This is my first posting so I apologize if I'm doing something wrong here (like sending too long a post). I'm new at this.

Here's my problem, I recently purchased a GL2 (after deciding against the TRV950) and I'm pretty happy with it, however, I do have a few questions about it that I can't seem to get anwered by anyone (including Canon).

I'm hoping it is OK to post them here. Barry? Anyone else? If you could help I'd really appreciate it!!!!!

Also, I should say, my altenative is to return the GL2 and buy the VX2000 -- but frankly, the weight difference and the balance (I have small hands and am left-handed) makes me want to like GL2 enough to keep it.

Oh, incidentally, I work in video production but don't always shoot my own stuff.

Ok, here goes with my questions:


1. On the GL2, what is the "E. Lock"? "E. Lock" is what appears in the viewfinder when I use the Exposure wheel on the front left side of the camera.

Yes, I know it changes the exposure of the picture, but what I want to know more specifically is, WHAT is actually changing to make the picture more or less exposed.

For example, by using the exposure wheel, am I actually changing the gain (in other words, adding light electronically)? Or, is it the aperture (or shutter speed or both) perhaps?

Is there a difference between the E. lock in "Auto" and E. lock in "TV" (or "AV")?

And, is the exposure wheel on the GL2 the same as rotating the Exposure wheel on the VX2000 (on the mid-left side of the camera) which seems to indicate a db measurement on the screen?


2. On the VX2000 there is an "AE shift" which allows you to move between Aprature priority, Shutter speed priority, Night time shooing, moving subjects, etc.

On the GL2, when you use "AE," you move up and down (more or less exposure) in .25 increments.

First, do you know if these AE features (on the GL2 and VX2000) are the same or different (and just have the same name)?

Next, do you have any idea what the .25 + or - increments refer to?


3. I too have a question/problem with the less-then-warm color of the Canon. Like an earlier posting, I thought Canons ran a little warm. I'm concerned that the GL2 is a bit cool. I found this to be ESPECIALLY in natural lighting.

Has anyone found this to be a big problem? I definitely prefer warm tones! I'm starting to have a feeling that this will be the deciding factor in which camera I buy.


I have three days to return the GL2, so I'm really hoping smeone can help me!

Thank you, thank you!

-Heidi W.
heidi@post.harvard.edu
Heidi Willoughby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 10:18 PM   #21
New Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 6
Barry,
Thanks for your thoughts. As with alot of artistic pursuits, ones preference of a video picture can be in the eye of the beholder! I have always prefered the picture generated by a high end Ikegami over Sony for broadcast but DV has of course, has thrown alot of us for a loop!

A couple more questions if I may. You touched on a XL2. When? I know you may not have the answer to that question but has anyone heard feedback yet on the successor to the XL1s?

Have you seen the new Panasonic 24p cam yet? I couldnt make it to NAB this year to catch the demo model and Im looking forward to seeing what the pictures look like from that camera.

Cheers
JD
__________________
Chaos, panic, & disorder.....my work here is done
John Dynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 10:28 PM   #22
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
I don't think you'll see an update/replacement until PMA, February, or NAB, April, and that's just a guess on my part. We could be a year and a half away or more. If you see big rebates on the XL1s at Christmas that will be the clue that something may be coming.

Jeff
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 10:28 PM   #23
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 42
Hello,

First, I apologize for the double post. I have no idea how this happened.

Second, to Mark Kolodny, others: Have you tried playing with the color adjustments on the GL2? Is there any way to warm up the color, extend the color range, and keep the color looking "real?" Any idea if this will be addressed by Canon, or if it presents a "real" problem?

-Heidi
Heidi Willoughby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2002, 10:30 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
the Xl2 mention was purely speculation on my part, although the fact that canon has improved the chips on the gl2 would indicate that they will do the same with the higher end model.

Barry
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2002, 11:27 AM   #25
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,189
Heidi-

Here are a few answers to your questions.

E.lock. Basically the e. lock overides the meter in the camera, holding an autoexposure setting in place. It's kind of like manual control without knowing what your settings are. Your question is a good one, though, because I've used the e-lock feature for years without really knowing what happens when I start adjusting it. So I checked. It appears that in all auto modes it will remove any existing gain first . In the TV mode it adjusts the aperture first, and then adjusts the gain. In the Av mode it adjusts the shutter first, and then adjusts the gain. In the Auto mode, it appeared to adjust the aperture first.

AE shift essentially applies an exposure compensation to the auto meter reading, while allowing the meter to function normally. The .25 increments are referring to fstops. Although it seems to be undocumented, I think the e. lock increments are the same.

Color
I haven't found the gl2 to run cool, but rather extremely neutral, and slightly lower in saturation (similar to the GL1). I've noticed that in daylight with the white balance on auto, the result is sometimes cool, but the daylight preset gives a very pleasing result.

Now, to adjust the color warmer there are a few things you can do. One is to adjust the color phase in the custom preset menu. (remember to turn the custom preset button ON when you're done making the correction). Another, better way, is to white balance to something with a slight blue tint. There are commercially available cards that allow you to do this, but if you have an inkjet printer, create a fill of 5 or 10 percent blue (will shift the scene slighly yellow) or cyan (slight red shift), print it out, and use that to do custom white balance. It's an old technique that works very well. You might want to bump up the color gain a couple of notches while you're at it. One other method would be to use a warming filter over the lens, just make sure the auto white balance is off.

I typically would prefer a camera with neutral color balance like the gl2, to one that was shifted in a particular direction. Correcting out a color shift can to achieve a neutral balance can be time consuming, so it's great the camera is doing it for you. Shifting the color balance away from neutral (to the warm) is a far more simple thing to do.

When considering your purchase....make sure you play around with the GL2's frame mode, as many consider it to be the one of the most important features, and one that is unavailable on the vx2000.

Barry
Barry Goyette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2002, 01:55 PM   #26
Mark Kolodny
 
Posts: n/a
Heidi:

I don't own a GL-2--just researching one for possible (probable?) purchase.

Sorry I can't help you out with the color issue--it's a major concern for me and I would hope that Barry's suggestions pan out for you.

Barry:

Thanks for your diligence in answering our questions.

--Mark



<<<-- Originally posted by Heidi Willoughby : Hello,

First, I apologize for the double post. I have no idea how this happened.

Second, to Mark Kolodny, others: Have you tried playing with the color adjustments on the GL2? Is there any way to warm up the color, extend the color range, and keep the color looking "real?" Any idea if this will be addressed by Canon, or if it presents a "real" problem?

-Heidi -->>>
  Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2002, 10:02 PM   #27
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 42
Thanks!

Hello,

Thank you, thank you everyone for all your help and advice! It has been completely and utterly useful!!

I am in the midst of talking with someone at Canon about my questions about E. Lock and AE (interestingly, thus far, I've gotten a range of different answers from different people), and I'll let you all know what I discover once he and I speak again on Monday.

For now, I've pretty much decided to (probably) go with the GL2 IF (and this is a big "IF") I can get used to the cool look of the video.

I've been doing lots of tests with the GL2 vs. the VX2000 in natural light which include changing the white balance and the color. I'm also doing a little looking into filters.

My opinion/observations on color indoors in natural light -- the GL2 is definitely cooler (which I really don't care for), but possibly a little more neutral and (maybe even) possibly, dare I say, a little accurate then the VX2000 (though not as pleasing).

Fortunately, I don't have to return the GL2 until next Thursday (at which time, I may weaken and buy a VX2000). We'll see.

By the way, I, like many of you, have a spouse who is embarrassed to be seen with a "big" videocamera, on the beach. But what the heck...

"Talk" with you soon,
Heidi
Heidi Willoughby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2002, 12:53 AM   #28
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 34
Hi, Heidi.

I've had my GL2 for 1.5 days now... are you not able to adjust the temp of the color to your flavor with white balance and custom key? Or is it that you can but would rather it were to your flavor in full auto "easy" mode? Because I can seem to get the whole range with these features.

Also, what is your question on the E. Lock? It seems pretty straight forward and clearly defined in the manual.

I don't know what the AE changes, but it's result is pretty clear: things get darker!

But if you're a photographer (like me) aren't you just using full manual anyway, where you adjust to flavor with your shutter and your aperature?

Best,

Blake
Blake Haber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2002, 06:20 AM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 42
Hi Blake,

Thanks for the post...

I have a few very specific questions (see my above posts) re: E. Lock and AE -- specifically WHAT is being changed that makes the exposure darker? (Is it the aperture? the gain? etc.)

Actually, I also do photography -- and it's because of this that I want to know WHAT is being changed -- so I can better understand how to make the picture(s) that I want.

As for color, yes, I would definitely prefer that my "preferred color tones" were in "Easy" mode. Not that I'll always use it in this mode, but it is nice to have a like-able default. In general, I think the GL2 looks cool (neutral, grey, blue) as opposed to warm which I'm used to, and prefer.

I've been able to change this a bit by white balancing and changing the color gain, etc. (thank you all who helped me along these lines) a bit -- but I'd definitely prefer to just pick up a camera that I don't have to adjust so much.

I want to buy the GL2 (well, actually, I did buy it, but would prefer to keep it vs. return it for the VX2000) but I want to make sure I can get the picture I like...

Have you played with the Sony VX2000? It shoots warmer as is.

Congrats on your purchase.

-Heidi
Heidi Willoughby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2002, 10:12 AM   #30
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 34
Hi, Heidi.

Actually, for some reason (alcohol?) I was thinking that when you go into E. Lock you could specify whether you're adjusting shutter or F, but of course that ain't so. I think the reason these sort of "blanket" adjustments don't bother me on this cam is that depth of field seems so limited compared to photo cameras as to almost not be an issue. Further, if I don't like what I see on the LCD I can go full manual for a tweak, just like on my Nikon N90s! Or if you've got a DoF or shutter you want, I can just use one of those modes (I like shutter priority best).

I agree on the color. Rather than shifting warm, though, I'd like as close to neutral as possible, out of the box. Sometimes, especially in doors, there is a little violet shit that needs tweaking.

But if I had a cam that always shifted yellow out of the box I wouldn't dig that either.

I've touched a VX2000 but I've used a PD150 and a friend uses one for his pro projects.

Guess what: though the PD150 is super-easy to control, I think the GL2 makes better looking video! I expected it to be worse than the 150, so I was really amazed at how great it looks, and it's frame mode is something I really love.

Didn't someone on one of these forums do some tests and post what seemed to be getting shifted with those exposure shifting switches.

Looking forward to what you learn from Canon,

Best,

Blake
Blake Haber is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon HDV and DV Camera Systems > Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders > Canon GL Series DV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:54 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network