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Canon GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


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Old August 17th, 2002, 12:50 PM   #61
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Where are you doing the manual white balance? The flashing may indicate that the color temperature of the light is outside the range of the cameras ability to fully correct it. This would be true of the auto white balance also. Generally speaking most cameras have a greater range of white balance adjustment in manual than in auto.

Jeff
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Old August 17th, 2002, 12:50 PM   #62
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A bit more

Hi Barry,

Ooops, one more thing...

So now I am trying your suggested adjustments (-1 sharpness, +1 color gain, +1 setup) and I can't seem to get the "CP" to show up in my viewfinder.

Here's what I'm doing:

1. I go into the Menu.
2. I select Custom Presets
3. I set the Custom Preset levels
4. I scroll down to"return"
4. The entire menu appears in my viewfinder 9includng the Custom Pressets option)
5. I hit the Menu button to get out.
6. Now, there is now mwnu in my viewfinder but neither is there a "CP"

I can't think of another way to do this, yet I don't see the "CP" (although the Presets are held)

Any tips?

Also, incidentally, when you say "+1" do you mean: scroll once (until the little box-shaped icon on the horizonal line changes to a smaller/skinnier box) or, do I need to scroll twice (since the first time the icon changes from a big box to a little box, I'm not sure it has actually avanced one time).

Thank you again!

-Heidi










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Old August 17th, 2002, 12:53 PM   #63
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Jeff,

I'm doing the white balance in the same room (an indirect sun-ny room) where I am also shooting.

But why would blue not work, but white (a lighter color) work?

Also, how would I KNOW whether the white blanace on the blue isn't working or the light is just flashing slower (whatever that means) but it IS working!?

Hm, interesting about the Manual vs. Auto. That kinds sucks as I may actually want to shoot in Auto sometimes (I have to admit...)

Thanks,
H
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Old August 17th, 2002, 01:14 PM   #64
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Heidi,

I don't have the specs on the GL2, I said generally speaking. Canon, and most mfgs. don't release complete specs, like color temperature range, on their prosumer cameras. Is the warm card you made blue or cyan? There is a big difference. Have you read the Warmcards pages? http://www.warmcards.com/wb101.html

This is a guess, but I'm suggesting that the flashing symbol indicates the WB is only partially corrected. This was the way my broadcast betacam cameras worked. I'm guessing the Canons may work in a similar maner. Anyone know for sure?

Jeff
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Old August 17th, 2002, 01:21 PM   #65
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Hi Jeff,

Yeah, I order some warmcards, but they haven't arrived yet.

Also, yes to Cyan (no to blue).

Finally, as for the flashing light... when this happened to you, did the white balance actually change (even if not exactly correctly)?

-H
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Old August 17th, 2002, 01:39 PM   #66
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Good to the cyan, it will add red which I think is where you want to be. This is a guess, but based on how the XL1 seems to work ( I fired it up, to try some of this out) if the symbol is flashing the WB is adjusted, but perhaps not fully corrected. The necessary correction excedes the range of the manual WB. For example the color temp is 2000 K (beyond the range of most cameras to correct). You manually WB and the color temp. is corrected to 5500K. The correct WB should be 6500 K so manual WB got you close. The camera just can't correct 4500, it's outside the range of the camera. This is just an example.

Have you tried WB the camera in different lighting situations? Outside in shade, daylight etc to see if the blinking quits?

Jeff
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Old August 17th, 2002, 02:38 PM   #67
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Heidi

I hadn't tried this with the gl-2 yet, so I thought I'd give it a whirl.

I printed 5% and 10% fills of cyan only and 5 and 10% fills of blue (cyan and magenta blend). I was able to white balance correctly on all 4 patches, with the expected results of a slight red shift on the cyan patches and a slight yellow shift on the blue patches. Worked like a charm...I think this is an excellent way to tune the camera's color to your liking...I'll be mounting these up for my location kit, and making up some other colors for my preferred "cool" look (Spielberg 1999-02).

I pointed my camera at some more heavily colored fills and saw the same problem you reported, so my guess is that your printer is printing the colors too dark. You could try printing a lighter percentage, or see if your printer allows you to lighten the ink setting (epson's do). The colors should look like a VERY light pastel blue.

I spoke with a friend who just purchased the WarmCards, and he felt that they were too strongly tuned...giving very strong color shifts, that were like looking through a tobacco filter. He said the lightest one gave decent results. It might be worth experimenting with a few colors until you get the look you want.

Good luck

Barry
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Old August 17th, 2002, 02:44 PM   #68
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Heidi,

If you look at the Warmcard site again you'll see how light the colors Barry is talking about.

Jeff
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Old August 17th, 2002, 02:49 PM   #69
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Heidi,

Just saw your second post..Once you set your custom preset info and close the menu, you need to press the custom preset button on the left side of the camera (by the white balance selector )...

Also, The custom preset you quoted will maintain a neutral balance...you may also want to bump the color phase button several points to the red...as Julia Childs would say...."to taste"

As for the adjustment levels, +1 = one bump.

Barry
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Old August 17th, 2002, 02:55 PM   #70
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Heidi,

I looked again, and actually the "custom preset" button is next to the "custom key"(which is next to the white balance buttons, and is a totally different thing)

Barry
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Old August 17th, 2002, 03:37 PM   #71
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Heidi

One more thing..I did a few more printouts, and was able to white balance against a 20% cyan and blue with no trouble..and I got excellently warm results (best from the cyan), I think you'll like it. I tried, an orange and pink patch and got more modest results at cooling things down...

Barry
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Old August 17th, 2002, 04:20 PM   #72
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Heidi

In my endless quest for knowledge...(I really wanted to max things out...and see if I could duplicate your experience) I printed another set of color patches at 25 to 40 percent...and finally got the slow blinking white balance on most colors in the 30-40 percent range. As I think jeff noted, essentially the camera is telling you "that's all there is". I don't think you would want to go that far anyway, as the color starts getting pretty weird (especially skin tones), with some pretty bleedy reds.

I was able to get a nice "flourescent lighting" green using a 30% magenta patch, and a coolish dusk-like blue with a mixture of 25 magenta and 20 yellow...

Hope this is of some help.

Barry
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Old August 17th, 2002, 05:20 PM   #73
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Barry, Jeff...

Jeff, Barry,

Thanks for all the posts (help)!

I'll try to make a few more print outs this evening and try again tomorrow am/early afternoon.

If either of you is around, and have nothing better to do then check this site
(only kidding), I'd love your input if I run into another problem... You've been extrmely helpful!

One question, Barry, you mentioned that 20% looked good. But if I'm running into the flashing icon problem at 5 or 10% (assuming our printer is working OK) I imagine 20% would be worse. Right? Or, am I misunderstanding you?

I'll try lighter (as you suggest) and see what happens.

Oh and by the way, sorry for asking such a dumb question about the Custom Preset button -- I forgot it was there!

-Heidi
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Old August 17th, 2002, 06:12 PM   #74
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Your last post

Barry,

Sorry I missed your last reply...

So, two things:

1. I just tried the white balance on blue again (same colors -- which, by the way, are a light-colored pastel, same location of cards, different lighting -- it's now 7 pm here vs. late am when I first tried).

And, I could successfully get the icon to "set."

Now I'm in a real quandry.

It seems as if you found that the darker (more blue/cyan) the white card is, at some point, the more difficult it is to white balance on. (Do I have this correct?)

Here's the rub. When I first tried this earlier today, I had the cards in one of the sunnier areas of a relatively (mosty indirect) sunny room. The icon kept flashing.

Just a few minutes ago, I put the same cards in the same spot but now, although the room is light, since it's 7 pm here there is no sun at all. (Sunset is around 8:15 pm) And, the icon "set."

So, my question -- what did I do wrong? I'm assuming I did something wrong. Otherwise, I'd have to assume that there are some locations I just won't be able to successfully manually white balance in, and I just can't believe that.

It seems as if the white balance worked when the light was darker (and therefore, the color of the cards also appreared darker) and similar to your 25-40% darker, flashing icon cards), rather then with more light in the room, making the cards appear even lighter pastel colors.

Did I just make myself clear???

Any ideas?


2. You just said

"As I think jeff noted, essentially the camera is telling you "that's all there is". I don't think you would want to go that far anyway, as the color starts getting pretty weird (especially skin tones), with some pretty bleedy reds."

What do you mean, "that's all there is"?


Again, your help is 1000 times appreciated.

-Heidi
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Old August 17th, 2002, 07:42 PM   #75
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Most camcorders take their samples for white-balance settings through the lens. But, a couple of years ago, I was given a new Canon A-1 Digital Hi-8 camcorder, that has a separate, white plastic window to the right of the lens for this. the camera was always showing too much red, either in auto WB or if I set it manually. So, I took a red, wide-tipped marking pen and made a 1/4" square in the middle of the window and put it on auto WB. Just like the printed sheets with the opposite color flavor you want in the image, this shifted the WB away from red into a cooler image that pleased me. You do understand that the WB sensor will shift the color balance away from what it sees, that varies from white, rather than towards it.

You don't need to print color sheets to trick the WB into shifting the opposite way. A collection of colored pens can be used to shade small sectors of the sheet in different colors and sizes, in a way that is more versatile and controlable than a printer can produce. Perhaps small portions of the sampled sheet with solid patches of blue, could work better than to print the whole area with a light shade of blue. You might also try some green, which is in the middle of the visible color spectrum, to shift the WB away from a cooler setting, towards one that is warmer.

Steve McDonald
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