GL-2 Questions

Barry Goyette · August 22nd, 2002, 10:32 AM

My guess is that the tech at canon was referring to your inability to "access" the gain in the auto modes, which would be correct...trust me, walk into a darkened room with the camera on auto, and you'll see that gain kick up enough to see the grain on the lcd...anyway, good luck tomorrow.

Barry

Heidi Willoughby · August 22nd, 2002, 06:17 PM

Ok, so I went back to the store with the GL2. Described the problems I was having....

The sales guy (head of the video dept.) said something like "Well, you are just being too picky. I don't believe there is a problem. You can either take this one [the one I bought] or get your money back. If the problems weren't so subjective that would be different." He also said something about it being impossible for the factory to make a calibration error, because it's done by computer. He didn't look at the camera.

So, I'm in a quandry. I'm inclined to just go buy another GL2 somewhere else, but I do use this store a lot (for still photo equipment and video) and it is the most "pro" place in town and the sales guys and customers are the most knowledgable. So I hate to "burn my bridges." (Even though, the sales guy IS acting like a jerk.)

Still. I don't want to end up with a messed up camera...

-Heidi

Keith Luken · August 22nd, 2002, 07:42 PM

I don't know why you are using a store that is not willing to accomidate you, especially if you use them a lot. Get your money back and call either Zotz Digital or www.BestPriceAudioVideo.com, both have it for $2300 and both only charge actual shipping, not inflated.

Heidi Willoughby · August 22nd, 2002, 08:01 PM

These aren't "gray market" cameras (cameras without a US warranty) are they?

-Heidi

Ken Tanaka · August 22nd, 2002, 08:12 PM

Heidi,
I agree with Keith that it sounds like you are patronizing a business operated by bone-heads...and you are probably paying a 10-20% premium to do so. Screw 'em. Get your money back and call one of our site's sponsors such as Zotz or ZGC. I just bought a GL-2 from ZGC myself. I've purchased my XL1s from them, too. Come to think of it, I purchased an XL1 from Zotz quite a while back (before they were sponsors here). Both of these operations are top-notch and really give a damn about providing top-notch products and service at good prices.

One additional note to consider. Canon's first production run record is less than perfect. It's entirely possible that the current GL-2 has some production bugs in it. In fact, I may have detected one in my GL-2. But these problems generally get cleared-up pretty quickly.

Casey Visco · August 22nd, 2002, 08:50 PM

Heidi, I was wondering what the shop was that you were having trouble with? I'd like to avoid that one if possible!

Heidi Willoughby · August 22nd, 2002, 08:58 PM

Casey,

I actually bet you know the place... it's Newtonville Camera. Have you done business there?

Keith and Ken, thanks for the really helpful feedback. Ken, I'm just wondering, is the bug you think you may have, similar to mine?

This is really making me think that I should return this GL2, wait a few months, and then buy another one online.

-Heidi

Ken Tanaka · August 22nd, 2002, 09:11 PM

Heidi,
No, my "bug" is a different species but the same taxonomic order. I'm reluctant to elaborate for fear of the 'Net effect: 'Fred' reads this post and tells 'Harry' and so on until it becomes reported as a major flaw of the GL-2 on some big board by some lazy kid who didn't check his facts. When all it was was one slightly defective unit.

Joshua Wachs · August 22nd, 2002, 10:21 PM

Zots and BestPrice are both Canon authorized dealers.

Hopefully we'll hook up tomorrow for a comparison.

Chris Hurd · August 22nd, 2002, 10:52 PM

<< These aren't "gray market" cameras (cameras without a US warranty) are they? >>

Absolutely NOT. Zotz Digital, ZGC, all of my site sponsors are genuine, died-in-the-wool authorized Canon USA dealers. In fact, Brian at Zotz usually goes out of his way to lecture on the pitfalls of buying from gray market dealers. Hope this helps,

John VVV · August 22nd, 2002, 10:55 PM

Ken, in the spirit of sharing useful information (what the forum is for), I for one would be interested in what "bug" you have found with the GL-2. The heck with what "Fred" thinks.

The thread about Heidi's camera has been going on for weeks across more than just this board so your information may confirm that there are some problems with the first run of cameras.

Posting the type of bug may also help the rest of us new GL-2 owners find the problem a bit quicker if it exists in our cams. If you are uncomfortable about sharing your findings on the forum you could always email the few of us the have new GL-2s.

The cat may already be out of the bag, a "mystery" glitch is worse than a known glitch any day of the week. If we are all looking for a undocumented problem, some of us will find what seem to be problems that aren't. I'm looking at my camera suspiciously now thinking about trying each and every feature, function, mode and operational nuance over and over again until I go into an obssesive frenzy.... help .

Regards, John.

Ken Tanaka · August 22nd, 2002, 11:26 PM

OK, in the "spirit of sharing" here 'tis. But, although the bug is very real, I want to emphasize that this is likely an isolated situation.

After capturing and reviewing the first hour of footage I shot with my GL-2 at an air show last weekend I noticed vignetting occurring on some of the shots. That is, varying amounts of the corners and edges of the frame would darken on some shots. Normally I would imagine that the lens hood was mismounted or something else was encroaching into the frame. Not so. To abbreviate the story of my investigation, I've not been able to determine a pattern that repeatedly invokes this phenomenon. Interestingly, however, when it does appear it tends to be most pronounced when the lens is zoomed out, not on wide shots. It also tends to be more common and pronounced when the ND filter is engaged, although it's not limited to the ND's engagement.

Frustratingly, neither the viewfinder nor the lcd show enough of the frame to tip you off to the problem while you're shooting. It's only after capturing or while using a professional monitor that you can see the bug.

So there it is. I'll likely be exchanging the camera tomorrow. If the replacement shows the same problem -then- we can make a bruhaha over it. Meanwhile, check your shots for this bug.

Jeff Donald · August 23rd, 2002, 01:35 AM

Optical problems like this are actually fairly common. After all these, can not be computer adjusted. Almost all zooms for camcorders are assembled as a complete unit, without the ability to make adjustments other than back focus (a factory adjustment). If the lens assembly is inserted improperly or is damaged in shipment the lenses can be misaligned. Aligning a lens assembly is a fairly simple procedure using focusing charts and scopes. The other possibility is with the filter wheel that moves the ND filter. It may be misaligned so that the frame appears in some shots. Again, a simple realignment problem.

I don't want to trivialize your problem, Ken, just point out the simple way these type of problems occur and their simple remedy. I would compare your problem to buying a new car with the front end not properly aligned (gee, I think people, not computers, align front ends). It's not common, but it does happen. Probably missed at the factory or happened during shipping. But its an easy fix.

Jeff

Linc Kesler · August 23rd, 2002, 09:02 AM

This post goes back to Heidi's question about viewing camera settings while in one of the auto modes. In a previous post I noted that it was possible to switch to manual and see what the auto setting was, but that if you changed a manual setting, that setting was retained when you switched back to manual the next time, so the tracking function was lost. Heidi asked if going from standby to lock reset the manual settings so they would track again. The answer is no, at least not for a while: manual settings are retained on lock. Switching to OFF will reset the manual settings so that they will track the auto ones, but that is a pain.

There is, however, another answer. If you switch to either Tv or Av mode and change the base setting there (either shutter speed or f stop), it resets the manual settings, even if your change is just for a second. So all you have to do is change one of these, and the manual mode will track the auto settings again. This is pretty handy, given that the kind of inquisitive person who would want to know is probably using Tv or Av for their auto needs anyway. I agree with Heidi that having instant access to the info would be nice, but having the ability to check what's happening is pretty functional, and after doing it a few times, you can pretty well guess what's going on in a given situation. Oh yeah, switching to auto does not reset the manual setting, since no user-initiated change can be made.

For what it's worth, Heidi, my background is also in still photography, and I like manual (my main cameras are a couple of old F1s and a Rolliflex, though sometimes I steal my daughter's OM4 -- now there's a camera that lets you know!). Of course, the trick is always to not let the desire for technical control stand in the way of a good shot.

Linc Kesler

John VVV · August 23rd, 2002, 01:32 PM

Ken, Thanks for posting the information... now I can get some sleep :-)

So far my camera seems to be rock solid and a joy to use. Thanks to all of the forum member's input the camera seems to be infinitely adjustable and able to get the look I need.

I've added a mini-rover to the GL-2 from another cam and that makes a great package to hang on to. Just the right weight to hand hold. The mini-rover also has large holes in the lower bracket, just perfect to poke my finger thru to hit the custom pre-set buttons.

Regards, John.

August 22nd, 2002, 06:17 PM	#17
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Tried to exchange the GL2... Ok, so I went back to the store with the GL2. Described the problems I was having.... The sales guy (head of the video dept.) said something like "Well, you are just being too picky. I don't believe there is a problem. You can either take this one [the one I bought] or get your money back. If the problems weren't so subjective that would be different." He also said something about it being impossible for the factory to make a calibration error, because it's done by computer. He didn't look at the camera. So, I'm in a quandry. I'm inclined to just go buy another GL2 somewhere else, but I do use this store a lot (for still photo equipment and video) and it is the most "pro" place in town and the sales guys and customers are the most knowledgable. So I hate to "burn my bridges." (Even though, the sales guy IS acting like a jerk.) Still. I don't want to end up with a messed up camera... -Heidi

August 22nd, 2002, 08:01 PM	#19
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Online ordering These aren't "gray market" cameras (cameras without a US warranty) are they? -Heidi

August 22nd, 2002, 08:12 PM	#20
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Heidi, I agree with Keith that it sounds like you are patronizing a business operated by bone-heads...and you are probably paying a 10-20% premium to do so. Screw 'em. Get your money back and call one of our site's sponsors such as Zotz or ZGC. I just bought a GL-2 from ZGC myself. I've purchased my XL1s from them, too. Come to think of it, I purchased an XL1 from Zotz quite a while back (before they were sponsors here). Both of these operations are top-notch and really give a damn about providing top-notch products and service at good prices. One additional note to consider. Canon's first production run record is less than perfect. It's entirely possible that the current GL-2 has some production bugs in it. In fact, I may have detected one in my GL-2. But these problems generally get cleared-up pretty quickly. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 22nd, 2002, 08:50 PM	#21
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	Heidi, I was wondering what the shop was that you were having trouble with? I'd like to avoid that one if possible! __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.

August 22nd, 2002, 09:11 PM	#23
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Heidi, No, my "bug" is a different species but the same taxonomic order. I'm reluctant to elaborate for fear of the 'Net effect: 'Fred' reads this post and tells 'Harry' and so on until it becomes reported as a major flaw of the GL-2 on some big board by some lazy kid who didn't check his facts. When all it was was one slightly defective unit. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 22nd, 2002, 10:32 AM	#16
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	My guess is that the tech at canon was referring to your inability to "access" the gain in the auto modes, which would be correct...trust me, walk into a darkened room with the camera on auto, and you'll see that gain kick up enough to see the grain on the lcd...anyway, good luck tomorrow. Barry

August 22nd, 2002, 07:42 PM	#18
Keith Luken Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 200	I don't know why you are using a store that is not willing to accomidate you, especially if you use them a lot. Get your money back and call either Zotz Digital or www.BestPriceAudioVideo.com, both have it for $2300 and both only charge actual shipping, not inflated.

August 22nd, 2002, 08:58 PM	#22
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Casey, I actually bet you know the place... it's Newtonville Camera. Have you done business there? Keith and Ken, thanks for the really helpful feedback. Ken, I'm just wondering, is the bug you think you may have, similar to mine? This is really making me think that I should return this GL2, wait a few months, and then buy another one online. -Heidi

August 22nd, 2002, 10:21 PM	#24
Joshua Wachs Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 95	Zots and BestPrice are both Canon authorized dealers. Hopefully we'll hook up tomorrow for a comparison.

August 22nd, 2002, 10:52 PM	#25
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	<< These aren't "gray market" cameras (cameras without a US warranty) are they? >> Absolutely NOT. Zotz Digital, ZGC, all of my site sponsors are genuine, died-in-the-wool authorized Canon USA dealers. In fact, Brian at Zotz usually goes out of his way to lecture on the pitfalls of buying from gray market dealers. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 22nd, 2002, 10:55 PM	#26
John VVV Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 32	Bug sharing Ken, in the spirit of sharing useful information (what the forum is for), I for one would be interested in what "bug" you have found with the GL-2. The heck with what "Fred" thinks. The thread about Heidi's camera has been going on for weeks across more than just this board so your information may confirm that there are some problems with the first run of cameras. Posting the type of bug may also help the rest of us new GL-2 owners find the problem a bit quicker if it exists in our cams. If you are uncomfortable about sharing your findings on the forum you could always email the few of us the have new GL-2s. The cat may already be out of the bag, a "mystery" glitch is worse than a known glitch any day of the week. If we are all looking for a undocumented problem, some of us will find what seem to be problems that aren't. I'm looking at my camera suspiciously now thinking about trying each and every feature, function, mode and operational nuance over and over again until I go into an obssesive frenzy.... help . Regards, John.

August 22nd, 2002, 11:26 PM	#27
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	OK, in the "spirit of sharing" here 'tis. But, although the bug is very real, I want to emphasize that this is likely an isolated situation. After capturing and reviewing the first hour of footage I shot with my GL-2 at an air show last weekend I noticed vignetting occurring on some of the shots. That is, varying amounts of the corners and edges of the frame would darken on some shots. Normally I would imagine that the lens hood was mismounted or something else was encroaching into the frame. Not so. To abbreviate the story of my investigation, I've not been able to determine a pattern that repeatedly invokes this phenomenon. Interestingly, however, when it does appear it tends to be most pronounced when the lens is zoomed out, not on wide shots. It also tends to be more common and pronounced when the ND filter is engaged, although it's not limited to the ND's engagement. Frustratingly, neither the viewfinder nor the lcd show enough of the frame to tip you off to the problem while you're shooting. It's only after capturing or while using a professional monitor that you can see the bug. So there it is. I'll likely be exchanging the camera tomorrow. If the replacement shows the same problem -then- we can make a bruhaha over it. Meanwhile, check your shots for this bug. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 23rd, 2002, 01:35 AM	#28
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Optical problems like this are actually fairly common. After all these, can not be computer adjusted. Almost all zooms for camcorders are assembled as a complete unit, without the ability to make adjustments other than back focus (a factory adjustment). If the lens assembly is inserted improperly or is damaged in shipment the lenses can be misaligned. Aligning a lens assembly is a fairly simple procedure using focusing charts and scopes. The other possibility is with the filter wheel that moves the ND filter. It may be misaligned so that the frame appears in some shots. Again, a simple realignment problem. I don't want to trivialize your problem, Ken, just point out the simple way these type of problems occur and their simple remedy. I would compare your problem to buying a new car with the front end not properly aligned (gee, I think people, not computers, align front ends). It's not common, but it does happen. Probably missed at the factory or happened during shipping. But its an easy fix. Jeff

August 23rd, 2002, 09:02 AM	#29
Linc Kesler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 65	This post goes back to Heidi's question about viewing camera settings while in one of the auto modes. In a previous post I noted that it was possible to switch to manual and see what the auto setting was, but that if you changed a manual setting, that setting was retained when you switched back to manual the next time, so the tracking function was lost. Heidi asked if going from standby to lock reset the manual settings so they would track again. The answer is no, at least not for a while: manual settings are retained on lock. Switching to OFF will reset the manual settings so that they will track the auto ones, but that is a pain. There is, however, another answer. If you switch to either Tv or Av mode and change the base setting there (either shutter speed or f stop), it resets the manual settings, even if your change is just for a second. So all you have to do is change one of these, and the manual mode will track the auto settings again. This is pretty handy, given that the kind of inquisitive person who would want to know is probably using Tv or Av for their auto needs anyway. I agree with Heidi that having instant access to the info would be nice, but having the ability to check what's happening is pretty functional, and after doing it a few times, you can pretty well guess what's going on in a given situation. Oh yeah, switching to auto does not reset the manual setting, since no user-initiated change can be made. For what it's worth, Heidi, my background is also in still photography, and I like manual (my main cameras are a couple of old F1s and a Rolliflex, though sometimes I steal my daughter's OM4 -- now there's a camera that lets you know!). Of course, the trick is always to not let the desire for technical control stand in the way of a good shot. Linc Kesler

August 23rd, 2002, 01:32 PM	#30
John VVV Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 32	Thanks Ken Ken, Thanks for posting the information... now I can get some sleep :-) So far my camera seems to be rock solid and a joy to use. Thanks to all of the forum member's input the camera seems to be infinitely adjustable and able to get the look I need. I've added a mini-rover to the GL-2 from another cam and that makes a great package to hang on to. Just the right weight to hand hold. The mini-rover also has large holes in the lower bracket, just perfect to poke my finger thru to hit the custom pre-set buttons. Regards, John.