GL2 / XM2 Frame mode

Ken Tanaka · May 13th, 2004, 05:57 PM

Welcome Bryan,
In all modes, 1/60 is your native shutter speed for NTSC. That is, video will generally look best if you can shoot at that shutter speed. In fact it's not a bad idea just to assume that shutter speed is unchangeable from that number.

Prech Marton · May 26th, 2004, 12:26 AM

"However, if you’re locked off and the tripod is on an unsteady surface like a press platform or there is vibration from wind, etc., image stabilization can be very helpful."

from www.alanbarker.com

Cosmin Rotaru · May 26th, 2004, 06:35 AM

doesn't panasonic use a OIS&EIS combination?

Jason Gurwin · June 30th, 2004, 09:16 AM

Are there any?

Robin Davies-Rollinson · June 30th, 2004, 10:19 AM

There is a slight degradation of picture quality. You can test this for yourself by coupling the camera to a TV monitor and try switching from frame to normal. It can be quite acceptable however.
Here's a sequence I shot yesterday in frame mode with the Title Mix letterbox function enabled.
It's a big file, so you need ADSL ;-)
http://robindr.neptune.com?selectedalbum=robindr54027

Robin

Jim OMalley · June 30th, 2004, 11:49 AM

Very pretty video, Robin. Reminds me of my trips to Ireland. I'm jealous that you folks in the British Isles have so many "scenic vistas" at your disposal!

Jean-Philippe Archibald · June 30th, 2004, 11:57 AM

You loose 25% of vertical resolution when using frame mode (horizontal resolution remain the same). But many folks, including me, prefer this softer look.

Barry Goyette · June 30th, 2004, 12:22 PM

Jason,

Jason

The 25% resolution mentioned above, is accurate, and also overstated.There's a pretty good discussion of frame mode here (I should know, I wrote it):

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=27777

skip down to the bottom of the first page, and onto the second for the skinny on frame mode...or do a search on all of dvinfo...as this has been a hot topic for years....lots of discussion.

Barry

Joe Kave · July 1st, 2004, 10:03 PM

I just got my GL2 this week, and in my (thusfar limited) tests, Frame Mode has produced some noticably "jittery" video. Especially when panning, one can almost see the picture "jumping" between frames. Is this normal? Is there some setting I can change to smooth this out?

Ken Tanaka · July 1st, 2004, 10:44 PM

Congratulations on your new GL2, Joe!

>> Is this normal?
This is normal.

>>Is there some setting I can change to smooth this out?

Smoother, slower pans. A good tripod is your friend. When shooting with any camera in progressive-scan mode (like Frame mode) handle the camera like a film camera. That is, use deliberate, controlled motion. It's also best to keep your shutter speed at 1/60.

Search this forum for more info on Frame mode matters. It's a well-worn topic.

Ryan G. Reed · July 10th, 2004, 12:13 PM

I have a wedding I'm shooting for a friend here in the U.S. but then I need to convert the footage to PAL. I really like frame mode but I'm worried that it may cause me problems when I convert from NTSC. Any experiences or thoughts? Should I shoot it in normal interlaced mode or use frame mode?

Jeff Toogood · July 10th, 2004, 08:13 PM

I was wondering what the result of mixing footage shot with my GL2 in frame mode and footage shot with a PD-100 in 'normal' video mode would be?

Will their be a drastic difference in the way the footage looks? can it be edited together? or shoudl I just shot the footage in normal mode with my GL2?

The reason I ask, is because I was thinking of shooting the more 'dramatic' moments with the GL2 in frame mode.

Thanks

Ken Tanaka · July 10th, 2004, 10:18 PM

There will be a "drastic difference" between the two. I think the first difference you'll notice is that of color and sharpness. I've not seen footage from a PD-100, but Sony's generally lean toward cooler, more greenish skin tones than Canon. Sony's also tend to produce a sharper image, not always a good attribute but generally a crowd-pleaser.

So to get these two cameras to play nice you'll probably need to skip frame mode on the GL2 and do some color and sharpness adjustments on the GL2 to accommodate the Sony (which may not be as adaptable).

Rob Lohman · July 11th, 2004, 07:18 AM

I have no experience but the best tip I can give you is to test your
workflow. If you have other wedding footage shot in NTSC frame
mode convert that to PAL. This firstly tests your NTSC to PAL
conversion methods and secondly how well it will look.

Hank Freeman · July 11th, 2004, 08:31 AM

actually, the effect can be very interesting. the viewer will notice immediately but be at a loss to describe it. i've produced documentaries using frame mode as b-roll video for a voice-over and found it to be cool.

May 13th, 2004, 05:57 PM	#271
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Welcome Bryan, In all modes, 1/60 is your native shutter speed for NTSC. That is, video will generally look best if you can shoot at that shutter speed. In fact it's not a bad idea just to assume that shutter speed is unchangeable from that number. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 26th, 2004, 06:35 AM	#273
Cosmin Rotaru Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Romania, Timisoara Posts: 453	doesn't panasonic use a OIS&EIS combination? __________________ Cosmin Rotaru

June 30th, 2004, 09:16 AM	#274
Jason Gurwin Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 33	Disadvantages to Frame Movie Mode? Are there any?

June 30th, 2004, 11:57 AM	#277
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	You loose 25% of vertical resolution when using frame mode (horizontal resolution remain the same). But many folks, including me, prefer this softer look. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

July 1st, 2004, 10:44 PM	#280
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Congratulations on your new GL2, Joe! >> Is this normal? This is normal. >>Is there some setting I can change to smooth this out? Smoother, slower pans. A good tripod is your friend. When shooting with any camera in progressive-scan mode (like Frame mode) handle the camera like a film camera. That is, use deliberate, controlled motion. It's also best to keep your shutter speed at 1/60. Search this forum for more info on Frame mode matters. It's a well-worn topic. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 26th, 2004, 12:26 AM	#272
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	"However, if you’re locked off and the tripod is on an unsteady surface like a press platform or there is vibration from wind, etc., image stabilization can be very helpful." from www.alanbarker.com

June 30th, 2004, 10:19 AM	#275
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	There is a slight degradation of picture quality. You can test this for yourself by coupling the camera to a TV monitor and try switching from frame to normal. It can be quite acceptable however. Here's a sequence I shot yesterday in frame mode with the Title Mix letterbox function enabled. It's a big file, so you need ADSL ;-) http://robindr.neptune.com?selectedalbum=robindr54027 Robin

June 30th, 2004, 11:49 AM	#276
Jim OMalley Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 81	Very pretty video, Robin. Reminds me of my trips to Ireland. I'm jealous that you folks in the British Isles have so many "scenic vistas" at your disposal!

June 30th, 2004, 12:22 PM	#278
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Jason, Jason The 25% resolution mentioned above, is accurate, and also overstated.There's a pretty good discussion of frame mode here (I should know, I wrote it): http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=27777 skip down to the bottom of the first page, and onto the second for the skinny on frame mode...or do a search on all of dvinfo...as this has been a hot topic for years....lots of discussion. Barry

July 1st, 2004, 10:03 PM	#279
Joe Kave Tourist Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norcross, GA Posts: 4	I just got my GL2 this week, and in my (thusfar limited) tests, Frame Mode has produced some noticably "jittery" video. Especially when panning, one can almost see the picture "jumping" between frames. Is this normal? Is there some setting I can change to smooth this out?

July 10th, 2004, 12:13 PM	#281
Ryan G. Reed New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Columbia Falls, MT Posts: 6	Will Frame mode cause problems converting NTSC to PAL I have a wedding I'm shooting for a friend here in the U.S. but then I need to convert the footage to PAL. I really like frame mode but I'm worried that it may cause me problems when I convert from NTSC. Any experiences or thoughts? Should I shoot it in normal interlaced mode or use frame mode?

July 10th, 2004, 08:13 PM	#282
Jeff Toogood Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St.Thomas, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 428	Mixing Frame Mode & Normal Mode Footage I was wondering what the result of mixing footage shot with my GL2 in frame mode and footage shot with a PD-100 in 'normal' video mode would be? Will their be a drastic difference in the way the footage looks? can it be edited together? or shoudl I just shot the footage in normal mode with my GL2? The reason I ask, is because I was thinking of shooting the more 'dramatic' moments with the GL2 in frame mode. Thanks __________________ Toogood Studios

July 10th, 2004, 10:18 PM	#283
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	There will be a "drastic difference" between the two. I think the first difference you'll notice is that of color and sharpness. I've not seen footage from a PD-100, but Sony's generally lean toward cooler, more greenish skin tones than Canon. Sony's also tend to produce a sharper image, not always a good attribute but generally a crowd-pleaser. So to get these two cameras to play nice you'll probably need to skip frame mode on the GL2 and do some color and sharpness adjustments on the GL2 to accommodate the Sony (which may not be as adaptable). __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 11th, 2004, 07:18 AM	#284
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I have no experience but the best tip I can give you is to test your workflow. If you have other wedding footage shot in NTSC frame mode convert that to PAL. This firstly tests your NTSC to PAL conversion methods and secondly how well it will look. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 11th, 2004, 08:31 AM	#285
Hank Freeman Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 37	interesting effect actually, the effect can be very interesting. the viewer will notice immediately but be at a loss to describe it. i've produced documentaries using frame mode as b-roll video for a voice-over and found it to be cool.