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Canon GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


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Old August 31st, 2005, 04:21 PM   #16
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Take the GL1 back, they have your property and wont return it. I would call the police and get them involved. At this point they owe you your GL2 back PLUS compensation for lost work (keeping the GL1 makes this harder to claim but you can say you accepted it under duress) They also are now RENTING your camera from you at a rate of $75 a day. At 9 days that is already $675 and GROWING.

I would call every number and let them know this is the last call before you seek an attorney and you will seek damages far exceeding the cost of the camera. I would at the very least file a fraud report with the local police and the state attorney general.

http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/mailform.htm

Make sure you drop off a copy of all the complains to the service center so they know how screwed they are.

If it were me, I would seriously be chained to their door...ar at the very least picketing.



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Old September 2nd, 2005, 07:08 PM   #17
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The End...

Well, I havenít updated here in a couple days because it became apparent that Canon was reading this board, and I didnít want to say anything more that might anger them or jeopardize the "NEW" GL2 that Doug promised me on Wednesday.

After I posted my previous post, obviously pissed off and having used names, Doug called me to clear some things up. On Wednesday he decided that it had been enough time and had searched high and low for a replacement GL2. He had ordered the GL2 and it would be shipped in from out of state by Thursday or Friday. I was happy finally there was light at the end of the tunnel. Doug clarified that the replacement camera was in fact "NEW" and even if MY camera turned up in the next couple days I would still be getting a "NEW" camera. He also mentioned that "unlike somebody mentioned online, the loaner GL1 I had in my possession was NOT somebody else's cameraĒ Once he mentioned that he read this board I was very pleased and must thank everybody here who commented and I believe helped me get what I deserved, well almost...

So skip ahead to today Friday. Doug called around 1pm and said my new camera was ready for pick up and I could bring in the GL1. I arrived at the canon office in Irvine and talk to the first person available, another new face. This guy recognized my name and told me Chris Canada, the first person I talked to actually was waiting for me and wanted to talk to me. In the Past Chris had been the most helpful or at least the most trained in customer service and I felt comfortable talking with him. Unfortunately Chris walks out of the mysterious back room holding a GL2 in a plastic bag with a rubber band around it. He types something into his computer and says "First, we need to settle up the repair costĒ He explained that although I didnít get my camera the repair had still taken place and I owed something Like "400 dollars"....WHAT. I was immediately dumbfounded. First of all I clarified that I had only agreed the 240 dollar head cleaning fee and was never notified of some so called "sand damageĒ He went back and said he misspoke and I only owed 240.

I was so baffled, because here I am expecting a brand new camera in the original packaging and I definitely wasnít ready to fork over 240 dollars so they could pay their technician, who as far as I know never even conducted the maintenance. After a little bickering Chris went into the back and returned awhile later telling me he had a "Deal" for me. They would take off 20% of the repair, and give me the battery that comes with the camera for free. I still wasnít happy and was actually insulted that they still wanted to add insult to injury. They were trying to save their Asses and clearly did not want to compensate for any damages they caused me.

At this point I asked to speak to Doug, or Daniel (who I then learned was Doug's supervisor) Chris would not let me talk to Daniel, but Doug did come out to see what was the matter. Doug patiently told me they had done me a favor in lending me a camera, which "NO other company would have done" and that I should be happy to accept this brand new camera as compensation enough. He also told me other BS about how the GL1 wasn't THAT inferior to the GL2 and their technician needs to feed his family and they spent ALL this extra manpower trying to locate my camera. I was extremely pissed off at this point and continued to tell them I did not feel it was fair to pay 240 dollars after I had put up with all this crap for the past 2 weeks. I told him I had lost money because I had been unable to shoot with my GL2, and I felt the damage they had caused me far outweighed the 240 dollars I was asking them to overlook. After about 20 minutes of me arguing with Chris and Doug, Doug told me 50% off the repair and the free battery was the best he could do, and walked away.

I looked at the camera in front of me remembering that I need to shoot this weekend and 120 dollars was a lot better than 240, and said OK, I guess I'll take it. I felt defeated and cheated, but I was stuck, I didnít want to deal with this BS anymore. Chris grabbed the battery from the back, which after a quick examination was clearly USED. I put the battery on the GL2, which to the eye looked unused. The only thing that was weird was the memory battery wasnít in its little compartment under the LCD screen. Do those usually come installed? Or had they simply forgotten to put it in their effort to make sure I didnít get anything more than I deserved. For example,
"Why don't I get a user's manual, and the other stuff Chris?"

"Because you didn't bring in a user's manual"

Well I'm at my office now; I have a GL2 and a new battery. It seems that my drama is over and I'm glad I donít have to deal with those people. I can shoot tonight, so I'm going to stop complaining.

Final thoughts, I am so disgusted with canon and this whole fiasco that I am honestly looking to invest in the panny DVX100a as opposed to the XL2 which I had previously had my eye on.

Thanx again to everybody. And Doug if you are reading...enjoy my camera if you ever find it, it was a good camera.

Peace,
Tague
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 07:36 PM   #18
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Well it was a headache for sure and I feel they shouldn't have tried to ask for the "repair" fee when there's no evidence of it having been done......BUT, Canon came through and got you a new GL2 which shows fair treatment. I had a GL2 and loved it....I'm glad this story ended up well.

Note to Canon: Us members here at the DVInfo net are aware of Canon's excellent reputation and I for one always look for Canon's offering in whatever digital device I'm considering purchasing....Having owned a GL2, XL1S, Eos 10D, Powershot Pro70 and now Rebel XT I'm a die-hard Canon fan- in large part because of their customer service. I just purchased a Sony FX1 because Canon has no offerings in the consumer HDV realm. So Canon don't forget your consumer base and we wont forget you.....I'm glad this ended well.

Now have fun!
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 05:58 AM   #19
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Tague, glad you finally at least got a camera after all this. I've been quietly watching this thread to see how things played out, and I guess I am not so forgiving as Steve is.

Of course, the Canon Factory Service Center in Irvine is at a disadvantage because they aren't going to post here defending themselves or to say that "Tague is a lunatic and things didn't happen anything like what he said"...or whatever their side of the story may be. But frankly, Tague, the impression I got while following this saga was that you were WAY more patient about this than I would have been.

Nobody and no company is perfect; we all screw up now and then. But what happens after we screw up is one thing that may set us apart from the crowd. No doubt the Service Center in Irvine has many satisfied customers whose cameras DIDN'T get lost, but even if the saga was greatly embellished (and it doesn't read that way), the actions of some folks at that Center were pathetic.

My take...

Given that a customer dropped off a fully functional camera asking for routine periodic service like a head cleaning, and my employees:

- Managed to lose the camera
- Made the customer take an old out-of-production model camera as a loaner for 11 days
- Repeatedly failed to take phone calls
- Repeatedly refused access to a manager when requested
- Tried to make the customer pay for services never delivered (prima facia in this case -- the camera to be cleaned was never returned!)
- Handed the customer a replacement camera in a rubber-banded plastic bag

They would be very lucky to NOT work for Pete Bauer! Well, they probably wouldn't anyway, as somebody would likely be "looking for new opportunities," most specifically the immediate managers responsible for rectifying such unfortunate screw up situations.

A good way to handle a screw up like this?
Day 1:
- Apologize genuinely and profusely
- Overnight a new replacement camera to the customer's door
- Provide a voucher for free head cleaning next time, along with an assurance that it will be a better experience
- Investigate the breakdown in the system and ensure it is fixed
Day 2:
- Call the customer and make sure he/she has the new camera
- Profusely apologize again for the inconvenience and thank them for bearing with you

Expensive? No. The employee time wasted trying in vain to find a lost camera, giving the customer the run-around, and lost sales probably cost the company more than the new camera they ended up forking over anyway. And who knows, a manager who keeps his/her department running smoothly and remembers that current customers really ought to be future customers, too, might even impress his/her boss. ("Wow, he/she is enough of a leader to take an occasional shot to the shorts when someone under him/her screws up! Ready for advancement"). I wonder how many word-of-mouth and future sales Canon has lost because of the ill will created when Service jacked Tague around?

Anyway, Tague, I'd still recommend writing Canon USA a brief letter expecting at least a return of your "head cleaning fee" and an assurance that the problems the Service Center caused you will be addressed to ensure they don't recur.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 06:16 AM   #20
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"because it became apparent that Canon was reading this board, and I didnít want to say anything more that might anger them or jeopardize the "NEW" GL2 that Doug promised me on Wednesday."

Screw them! You were the one who was out of $4,000, because they "lost" your camera. You were far more patient and understanding than I would have been! I'm just happy to hear it worked out in the end... aside from lost time, and not using your camera to earn a living.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 11:46 AM   #21
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The only thing that was weird was the memory battery wasnít in its little compartment under the LCD screen. Do those usually come installed?
No, those time/date batts usually do NOT come installed. A new one costs less than a buck.

They are obligated to replace only what you brought in, so the owner's manual, etc. is not part of the deal -- you have your original, right?

I agree with Pete, this was a mishandled situation, and hopefully it's a very rare occurance. You should not have had to pay $120 but at least you can put this episode behind you and get on with creating video. Thanks for the update,
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 12:33 PM   #22
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UNFRICKING BELIEVABLE!!!!!! They charged you for a camera THEY LOST?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!

Dont give up... their strong arm tactics caused you to have to accept the camera under duress. File a complaint with the BBB and the state Attorney general. I would also file a complaint with Canon corporate. And to anyone on Canon's side reading this thread, you are all spineless weenies with no accountability. Sad sad sad excuse not only for a business, but for human beings. PATHETIC!



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Old September 3rd, 2005, 01:27 PM   #23
 
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Tague, by all means, contact Canon USA and tell them exactly what happened and how badly you were treated. They owe you $120!

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Old September 3rd, 2005, 01:31 PM   #24
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Yeah, I am amazed by all of this too.

"... and their technician needs to feed his family and they spent ALL this extra manpower trying to locate my camera."

This amazes me the most. That they would try, in the face of their own bold incompetence and dodging, to guilt you in to paying $240 for work they can't even show you is ridiculous. It is their responsibility to pay their employees, not yours. They lost your camera, and that is not the technicians fault. They have to pay him no matter what you do. I am astounded that they even said it.

And then to mention the extra manpower they spent looking for the camera, as if that had anything to do with you. Of course they had to spend the extra time looking for it, they lost it! And they want to charge that to you?

I am sympathetic to the fact that you were just happy to have a camera and be done with it, but you did let them off easy.

The fact is that if you did lose significant income because of this, you can still take legal action. Accepting the camera does not release them from blame for that. Depending on the numbers it may not be worth your hassle.

The upside is that you were expecting to pay $240 for a cleaned camera, and you paid $120 for a new one. But when the delay means moneyÖ. that doesnít help much.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 01:31 PM   #25
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Ash, if you ever become a lawyer and I need legal help, you're the first on my list. For real.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 02:06 PM   #26
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A search for problems I had with my first XL2 and getting a replacement will reveal the problems I had with Irvine. After reading this thread, I am convinced that should my camera need repair I will send it to New Jersey, rather than Irvine, and I LIVE in California.

There is NO question that reporting the service level in a calm, mature and rational level on this board has a real time effect. I've seen it with me, and again with this thread. Just one of the values of this board, and the oversight that Chris lends to it.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 05:35 PM   #27
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Who wants more??

So...I'm very happy to see people siding with me on this one. I actually was guilted into thinking it was just bad luck and I shouldnít put so much blame on them. Thanx Ash for the defense and all the other's that agree I didn't get what I deserve.

I would be pretty much back to normal now, aside from the bad taste in my mouth I will have for canon for some time. BUT BUT BUT. I decided to take the night off from videography yesterday and do something else. When I woke up this morning I decided it was time to start shooting. First thing I did with the aforementioned "NEW" camera was put the 8mb card in, Also USED, no big deal, and a new DV tape. I fired the baby up and threw her into manual everything looked good. I then flipped on the manual focus turned the focus ring and VOILA....nothing. The focus was locked but turning the ring did nothing! Is this some kind of joke? Has this ever happened on a brand new GL2? Iíve never heard of any problems with the focus ring, and even made sure to do a search here on the board.

Well I do have a 1-year warrantee, I could just take it back into them, or I can send it to New Jersey as Richard suggests, I had already thought of this early on dealing with the Irvine office. BUT since this comes in light of everything else that happened I feel that there is something else I should do. Before I contacted Canon I just wanted to get some advice from the trusty DVinfo community. First is there someway the focus ring is just locked, (the ring turns fine, just doesnt change the focus) am I just making a stupid cameraperson mistake, I doubt it. Has anybody else had a problem with their focus ring? And Finally am I the only one, or is this camera probably not "NEW"?

Beyond pissed off,

Tague
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 05:54 PM   #28
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Tague, check the camera to be certain that you are not shooting in the "Green Box" (easy recording) mode. Focus is still auto, even when set to manual, when shooting in this mode.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 05:59 PM   #29
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Uh, maybe it's on autofocus? Or infinity?
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 07:28 PM   #30
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I've tried MF on every setting on the camera. And when the "MF" is on the display, turning the ring does nothing. The focus locks at where it was with AF and doesnt change no matter how much I turn the ring.

??????

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