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Canon GL2, GL1 and PAL versions XM2, XM1.


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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:18 PM   #1
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GL2 white balance?

After a manually set white balance do you need to reset WB after taking the camara into Lock and bringing it back to Standby? Also the same question with reguard to a auto power shut off.

Thanks in advance joe irvine
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 01:40 PM   #2
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According to the manual (PAL version page 78-79), the manual white balance settings will be stored in the camera memory when the camera is shut down.
After turning the camera on again, select manual white balance, and you should have your original setting.

The manual does not mention what happens after the auto power off, but from my experience, the settings remain when you power up the camera again.

ps, instead of the auto power shut down, you can chose to only shut down the recorder section. (VCR STOP)
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 06:05 PM   #3
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Actually guys, what is the correct procedure for setting white balance, and is it truly better then allowing the camera to do it automaticaly?

Dave
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Old May 24th, 2006, 12:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David L. Holmes
Actually guys, what is the correct procedure for setting white balance, and is it truly better then allowing the camera to do it automaticaly?

Dave
You have asked "THE" question, that keeps recurring on these boards. It is a good question and goes to the nub of the issue in understanding of just what is WB correcting and what is it for?

I'm gonna just stay with the AUTO. A.WB is the, listen hard here, is an AVERAGED out setting that our XM2 will regard as being what you want. The camera is thinking - sorry, I know it doesn't really think! - "This is what Grazie is telling me is in front of the me, the camera. OK, I'll keep this as the average setting for WB and move along!" - As you will probably quickly realise that if the environment should then become predominantly REDish the camnera doesn't automatically tone down the reds to a more neutral, no. And worst of all it is still regarding this whole scene as BALANCED! Yuck! Step in Manual WB.

My feeling on the matter is that - blasphemy here - I believe Auto WB SHOULD be called "Set-In-Stone-Averaged-Out-White-Balance-Against-That-Which-Was-Set-By-The-Manufacturer". It wont alter. It wont alter if you come inside from a Bright Sunny 5k-8k day to a room flooded with tungsten. It will not Automatically adjust. As I said above this is EXACTLY where you would use Manual WB.

As I said, I would stick with Auto -I wanna say more . . but!

For me, why WB?

* When finally in edit I have MOST clips looking the same.

* A Reference that I know that I change FROM in post - AUTO won't give me this.

* Using a "colour" view finder - ie NOT BnW - focus is easier for me when I get to more "neutral.

* Now having the clips kinda all in a row - colour-wise - I can apply a "look" that will take me "less" time than if clips were, in terms of WB, many and various.

OK - real World:

* I STICK with the Presets on my XM2.

* I use AUTO WB when I can tell that it is an average kinda day! Which for me is rare . . .

* I do have cards, but have found my jobs and workflow truly don't call for them as often as I thought I would need them. If I knew I would be videoing within a strictly yellowy-greeny-tungstieny setting then I may "need" to whip 'em out. Mostly I can get good and acceptable results in VEGAS NLE. It's a workflow thing. However, because we have a smallish chip - 1/4 - I should REALLY give the camera as much help as I can by WB-ing to card more often than I do do. ALSO, before I forget, manually WB-ing for low light settings does assist my XM2.



So, what is the correct way? The correct way is the way that gets the scene up there! And that depends on many and various variables - least of which is the profound amount of time I/you/we can waste in post to make it so; deliver a sharp and as high a dynamic range as we can for the lighting environment before us!!! For ME that is the correct approach. Treat each sot on its own merits and make a judgment. It'll come and I'm still learning.

In Summary?

+ Auto Averages stuff out - it doesn't AUTOmatically adjust to the environ it is in.

+ WB Presets are fixed for a given set of lighting - but what YOU are seeing may NOT be what the preset is fixated on.

+ White Balance is balance against WHITE - it is NOT Colour Balanced.

+ DO SOMETHING! Make a decision and KNOW you've done it.

. . and finally the reading list, some of the many and various threads and articles I quickly cobbled together that get me through the night!

Do the first in the list . . er .. FIRST! .. It is clear and simple .. well I understood it AND it is from the video perspective too!

http://www.cybercollege.com/tvp018.htm

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=white+balance

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=white+balance

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...te-balance.htm

http://nikondigital.org/articles/white_balance.htm

http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolo..._tutorials.php


Regards,

Grazie
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Old May 25th, 2006, 06:03 AM   #5
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Before I get confused ..

I'd just like to check something as I think I may be getting confused.

I just went out and shot some test footage for the first time on my XM2, commentating as I changed the various settings so I could watch it back later.

I just want to check that when hitting the w.balance select button .. that with the little icon (two triangles with a square in the middle) on the screen, I am in manual white balance - and when no icon is present, that the camera is in auto white balance?

While out I was using a white card to manually set the w.balance. I have been confused by what is written on P79 of the manual:

"If the lighting conditions change, reset the white balance by first returning to the auto setting, and then reselecting manual balance"

Does this mean return to auto setting, manually balance with a white card and then continue? Or does it literally mean go back to auto mode and then return to manual mode as set before when I originally white balanced? I am sure that this would just set this camera to how it was *before* the lighting changed and wouldn't make sense, but I just wanted to double check because the manual does not make it absolutely clear to me.

I think I may also be getting confused between white balance and exposure. Once I have set the white balance .. is there ANY reason I would then want to hit the exposure lock? Or are these two totally unrelated in terms of setting exposure ready for the shot? Is white balance JUST that .. a way of averaging out light condition for the purpose of setting relative COLOUR alone? Or is it also helping me with exposure?

Please bear with me on the above, I know the answer will be totally obvious - but I've got to the point where I've read so much, and it all seemed 'there' and now it's muddying itself for some reason.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 06:12 AM   #6
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You are correct about the icon for manual WB, and that no icon appear when using Auto white balance.

"If the lighting conditions change, reset the white balance by first returning to the auto setting, and then reselecting manual balance"

I understand this as first return to auto WB, then go back to manual, and set the new white balance with the new lighting conditions.

Difference between white balance and exposure:
WB is to tell the camera what is white.
Exposure is about how much light the camera get. (shutter speed and aperture)
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Old May 25th, 2006, 07:49 AM   #7
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Thanks Trond.

More reading / re-reading needed I think this end.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 04:01 PM   #8
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Clarification

Trod,
A little clarification. Actually, you select manual white balance (icon appears on the screen), and then set the white balance (the icon blinks until it has set--sometimes it keeps blinking, but at a slower rate to tell you it did set the white balance the best it could based on available light). This two-step process requires the use of two different buttons on the camera: On my GL2 the select function uses the button labeled "Select", and the set function uses the button labeled with that funny looking icon.

Also, you do not have to go back to auto white balance before resetting manual white balance. Just press the set button again. The icon will blink quickly until it has reset. Example, say I am using manual white balance in a room for a wedding reception. Then I walk outdoors to shoot the couple leaving when it is night time and there is different kind of lighting. I point my camera at a white card or groomsman's white shirt and push the white balance set button. Now the white balance is set for the new lighting. And it was done quickly in only 10 seconds or so.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 04:19 PM   #9
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Mike

You are correct about the procedure to set the white balance manually.
I thought that the 2 button operation was obviously, so I didn't write that.
(this procedure is described in the manual)

If you look in the manual (page 78-79 for the XM2), the manual states that you should first go back to auto white balance, and then back to manual again to set the new manual white balance after light conditions changes.

Why the manual states that you have to go back to auto, I do not know.

I always do as you do Mike, just pointing at the white/grey card/paper and push the select button again.
So I believe we both agree on how to do it the easiest way.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 10:09 PM   #10
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Let Me Know

Trond,
If you ever discover the reason for returning to auto first, please let me know. Sometimes there would be enough time to do so, and other times the shot might get missed if I took the extra step. That is, if I don't forget to reset WB as the bride and groom get ready to rush out of the reception into the bubbles, roses, poppers, sparklers, or whatever. Sometimes I am just too busy trying to find a place where my camera, clothes, or ears won't get damaged while trying to get those final shots. There are some lights for which no WB will work--some give off a strong green tinge. For those, I use color correction during post-editing.
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Old May 26th, 2006, 01:24 AM   #11
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Mike, I will try to do some tests later today, and see if I get any different results using either of the two methods of setting the new white balance.
(just set the new WB, or to go via auto setting first)

Hopefully it will show us if the manual is correct and we need go via the auto WB setting first before returning to the manual WB.

I will post here as soon as I have tested it.
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Old May 26th, 2006, 11:40 AM   #12
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test of procedures for setting manual white balance

I have now tested the different methods for setting the manual white balance with the XM2.

a)Indoors, set the camera on a specific place on a table to make sure the frame where identic in the two tests.
b)Outdoors, set the camera on tripod.
Manual exposure.

Since I only wanted to test manual white balance, I used the still photo to card for highest possible resolution.

Light conditions:

A) Indoors with wolfram light bulbs.
B) Then I went outdoors to sunshine.
White balance set by using a white A4 printer paper.

Test 1: Using the method specified in the XM2 manual page 78-79
Test 2: Using the method described by Mike.

Test 1.
First I had set the manual white balance for the lighting conditions indoors (A).
When I went outdoors, I then followed the instructions given in the manual. Set the camera to AUTO white balance, and then back to manual and set the white balance again for the new light conditions (B-outdoors)

Test 2.
First indoors with manual white balance, and then went outdoors to the sunshine. Just set the new white balance by just hitting the select button, WHITOUT going via AUTO setting.

After studying the 4 photos side by side in photoshop, I can not see any difference in white balance/color.
The indoors photos looks the same as far as I can see. And the same with the 2 outdoors photos.

So my conclusion must be that either way gives the same result.

Notice that my conclusion is only based on what I saw when comparing the photos in photoshop.

----
If anyone else comes to a different conclusion, please let us know.
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Old May 27th, 2006, 08:03 AM   #13
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Makes Sense

Thanks, Trond, for the results.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 11:34 AM   #14
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Is anyone have the same experience as I when manually set WB?

Indoors I always get "greenish" tone. Is this caused by normal indoor light or the XM2/GL2 own characteristic?
I get somewhat better results if I set WB really close to a window. But whats the point then? This is not the light that is represented indoors. It seems like I can not trust the manually WB... I am soon going to shoot a rock concert indoors with lots of spotlight onstage. The hall is very dark. Is there a way to "fool" the camera so it's not giving me these green tone.

(PS. when I white balance, I use a standard A4 white paper.)

Any advice would be appreciated. I will shoot the concert next week.

Thanks

/Ronnie
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Old April 17th, 2007, 01:42 PM   #15
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standard A4 white paper

Ronnie,
"white" paper is often not true white. It may be slightly yellow, or slightly blue. To you it's white, but it may be off enough to trick the camera thus giving you the green cast. We really should be buying real "White Balance" cards, but I've always used printing paper too. I just compare a few sheets to get one that gives me a good color, then I stick that sheet in my camera bag for the rest of the shoot and I religiously use the exact same sheet for the rest of the shoot and I re-white balance EVERY time the light changes.
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