Why New Cam Drop-Outs? at DVinfo.net

Bob Harotunian · April 30th, 2003, 12:25 PM

Bought my GL-2 new last November and I'm just getting out now for testing. However, each time I playback tape I have at least one audio drop-out and a pixelated frame. I've used nothing but Sony Premium tape (DVM60PRL or DVM60PR2) since day one. Any ideas why a new camera has this problem? I need to gain confidence in the camera's perfomance since weddings start next month.
Thanks for any help,
Bob

Frank Granovski · April 30th, 2003, 12:45 PM

I found that with a brand spankin' new cam, you can get dropouts in the first tape or so, so, clean the heads. However, after cleaning your heads you might want to switch to Fuji miniDV.

Ken Tanaka · April 30th, 2003, 12:47 PM

I assume that (a) the camera is factory-new and, (b) that the tapes you're using are reasonably new and not on their 10th lives.

If that's the case, you should contact Canon service. It's not normal. If you send the camera to Canon be sure to send a sample tape along with it.

Bud Kuenzli · April 30th, 2003, 01:39 PM

I also had dropouts with my brand-new GL2 and I did a 5 second cleaning tape run and all has been just fine since, so I'd at least try that as a simple step to take before looking toward Canon support. Anytime you have dropouts like that the first thing to try is a quick cleaning tape. Even multiple passes (after a momentary rest), like canon recommends might be needed, but if the problem continues after 3 or four attempts to use a cleaning tape, THEN I would contact Canon to have it cleaned professionally.

Alex Knappenberger · April 30th, 2003, 02:00 PM

Strange, you guys have using these much more expensive cameras and having problems. I have just a Panasonic DV52 ($400) and I've recorded over some Fuji tapes atleast 6 times, and never got a dropout, ever...hopefully I don't either... *knocks on wood* :)

Frank Granovski · April 30th, 2003, 11:13 PM

Alex, 99% of the time heads get clogged/drop-outs because of the tape. That's been my experience. However, from reading people's complaints over the years, with buying a new cam, leads me to believe that a new cam may experience this with the first tape.

Bob Harotunian · May 1st, 2003, 07:29 AM

Since we're talking about a new camera, I was wondering if any of you knew what testing they do at the factory before releasing for sale. Are they running a tape over the heads so that there may be some residue?
Bob

Bill Hardy · May 2nd, 2003, 04:45 AM

I thought there was something in the manual stating you should use a tape cleaner as soon as the first 24 hours of use?

Bob Harotunian · May 2nd, 2003, 06:04 AM

Actually, the manual states that the heads should be cleaned after 20 hours of use.
Bob

Chris Hurd · May 2nd, 2003, 10:56 AM

My own firm recommendation is: run a head cleaner (never for more than 5 seconds at any time) on these occasions:

1. Upon opening a brand new camcorder, fresh out of the box, *before* recording that first tape.

2. Periodically about every 20 hours of recording time.

Send the camcorder in for professional cleaning at the manufacturer's service center on these occasions:

1. Once per year of occasional light-duty use,

2. Twice per year of frequent heavy-duty use.

I would consider the charges incurred for professional cleaning to be part of the normal operating costs of the camcorder. Hope this helps,

Michael Prediger · May 2nd, 2003, 11:23 AM

Bob,

I just purchased a GL2 from Brian at Zotz digital and he gave me some insight into different tapes. Basically, it's only recommended that you use Panasonic tapes in the GL2, more specifically, the Panasonic 63PQ.

It turns out that Panasonic manufactures tapes for Panasonic, JVC and Canon. They use what's called a "dry lube" process on the tapes, vs. the Sony tapes which use a "wet lube" process. I've read about this before and Brian confirmed it for me.

You might want to try cleaning the heads and then using only Panasonic tapes in the camera, should clear up your problems.

Michael

Tustin Larson · May 2nd, 2003, 01:33 PM

What about fuji tapes? Dry or Wet???

Michael Prediger · May 2nd, 2003, 01:40 PM

I believe that all tapes other than Panasonic use the "wet lube" process during manufacture, but I can't be 100% sure as info regarding this is difficult to find. I'm currently trying to contact someone at the Panasonic factory to see if they have any white papers, etc. which detail the processes involved.

Michael

Frank Granovski · May 2nd, 2003, 01:53 PM

Fuji is dry.

One of the links I have here,
http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm
has a list of tapes which says if they're dry or wet. It's not a complete list, though.

Michael Prediger · May 2nd, 2003, 02:07 PM

Unbelievable!! So the Panasonic tape that was recommended to me as "dry" is, in fact, WET!

Man, my head hurts! :-)

April 30th, 2003, 12:25 PM	#1
Bob Harotunian Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 360	Why New Cam Drop-Outs? Bought my GL-2 new last November and I'm just getting out now for testing. However, each time I playback tape I have at least one audio drop-out and a pixelated frame. I've used nothing but Sony Premium tape (DVM60PRL or DVM60PR2) since day one. Any ideas why a new camera has this problem? I need to gain confidence in the camera's perfomance since weddings start next month. Thanks for any help, Bob

April 30th, 2003, 12:47 PM	#3
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I assume that (a) the camera is factory-new and, (b) that the tapes you're using are reasonably new and not on their 10th lives. If that's the case, you should contact Canon service. It's not normal. If you send the camera to Canon be sure to send a sample tape along with it. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

April 30th, 2003, 01:39 PM	#4
Bud Kuenzli Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 197	normal or not I also had dropouts with my brand-new GL2 and I did a 5 second cleaning tape run and all has been just fine since, so I'd at least try that as a simple step to take before looking toward Canon support. Anytime you have dropouts like that the first thing to try is a quick cleaning tape. Even multiple passes (after a momentary rest), like canon recommends might be needed, but if the problem continues after 3 or four attempts to use a cleaning tape, THEN I would contact Canon to have it cleaned professionally. __________________ on the Internet, when you get where you're going you still don't know where you are

May 2nd, 2003, 10:56 AM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	My own firm recommendation is: run a head cleaner (never for more than 5 seconds at any time) on these occasions: 1. Upon opening a brand new camcorder, fresh out of the box, before recording that first tape. 2. Periodically about every 20 hours of recording time. Send the camcorder in for professional cleaning at the manufacturer's service center on these occasions: 1. Once per year of occasional light-duty use, 2. Twice per year of frequent heavy-duty use. I would consider the charges incurred for professional cleaning to be part of the normal operating costs of the camcorder. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 2nd, 2003, 11:23 AM	#11
Michael Prediger New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 12	It's probably the tape Bob, I just purchased a GL2 from Brian at Zotz digital and he gave me some insight into different tapes. Basically, it's only recommended that you use Panasonic tapes in the GL2, more specifically, the Panasonic 63PQ. It turns out that Panasonic manufactures tapes for Panasonic, JVC and Canon. They use what's called a "dry lube" process on the tapes, vs. the Sony tapes which use a "wet lube" process. I've read about this before and Brian confirmed it for me. You might want to try cleaning the heads and then using only Panasonic tapes in the camera, should clear up your problems. Michael __________________ cut...Cut.....CUT!!!!

April 30th, 2003, 12:45 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I found that with a brand spankin' new cam, you can get dropouts in the first tape or so, so, clean the heads. However, after cleaning your heads you might want to switch to Fuji miniDV.

April 30th, 2003, 02:00 PM	#5
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Strange, you guys have using these much more expensive cameras and having problems. I have just a Panasonic DV52 ($400) and I've recorded over some Fuji tapes atleast 6 times, and never got a dropout, ever...hopefully I don't either... knocks on wood :)

April 30th, 2003, 11:13 PM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Alex, 99% of the time heads get clogged/drop-outs because of the tape. That's been my experience. However, from reading people's complaints over the years, with buying a new cam, leads me to believe that a new cam may experience this with the first tape.

May 1st, 2003, 07:29 AM	#7
Bob Harotunian Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 360	Since we're talking about a new camera, I was wondering if any of you knew what testing they do at the factory before releasing for sale. Are they running a tape over the heads so that there may be some residue? Bob

May 2nd, 2003, 04:45 AM	#8
Bill Hardy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 205	I thought there was something in the manual stating you should use a tape cleaner as soon as the first 24 hours of use?

May 2nd, 2003, 06:04 AM	#9
Bob Harotunian Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 360	Actually, the manual states that the heads should be cleaned after 20 hours of use. Bob

May 2nd, 2003, 01:33 PM	#12
Tustin Larson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Palm Springs, CA Posts: 86	What about fuji tapes? Dry or Wet???

May 2nd, 2003, 01:40 PM	#13
Michael Prediger New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 12	I believe that all tapes other than Panasonic use the "wet lube" process during manufacture, but I can't be 100% sure as info regarding this is difficult to find. I'm currently trying to contact someone at the Panasonic factory to see if they have any white papers, etc. which detail the processes involved. Michael __________________ cut...Cut.....CUT!!!!

May 2nd, 2003, 01:53 PM	#14
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Fuji is dry. One of the links I have here, http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm has a list of tapes which says if they're dry or wet. It's not a complete list, though.

May 2nd, 2003, 02:07 PM	#15
Michael Prediger New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 12	Unbelievable!! So the Panasonic tape that was recommended to me as "dry" is, in fact, WET! Man, my head hurts! :-) __________________ cut...Cut.....CUT!!!!