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-   -   Is the sound of the 20 Canon better than 10? (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/101970-sound-20-canon-better-than-10-a.html)

Kevin Carter August 23rd, 2007 04:18 PM

Is the sound of the 20 Canon better than 10?
 
I might have gotten the 10 but I had read that the sound was so inferior to the Sony (hdc-hr3), and that the mic was placed in mid or rear area.

I now loathe the Sony becuase of it's horrid steady shot, I'm now going to sell my Sonys. So I can get with the new sony version 7, which now has optical stabilizations of get the Canon 20.

So my question is: Is the sound of the 20 Canon better than 10? Did they improve it?

Also, I'm sure people are bit biased her, but I do hear that the Canon 20 is better than the Sony equivialnt models, should I jump in with Canon, anyone disagree. (but the sound is my main concern as I do a lot of "people talking to the camera" kind of projects)

Dave Blackhurst August 23rd, 2007 11:02 PM

Kevin,
Your real question is whether the sound is better on the Sony or the Canon. If you're talking on camera mics, the sony is better - shell noise is a factor with the Canon - you'll see plenty of commentary on the necessity of an add on mic for the HV20.

As for OIS, I've had better results with the HC7 than the HV20, but the HV20 is a great little cam in it's own right - either is a big jump up from the HC3.

Luc Fender August 24th, 2007 10:30 AM

I returned the HC3 while ago because I heard the motor noise at various levels. The HV20 is not much better although it's at least more fixed noise and you can adjust the rec volume.

It looks to me the HG10 has little bit better steadyshot looking at one of the camcorder reviews and it shouldn't have any motor noise either since it's HDD.

Joseph H. Moore August 24th, 2007 10:40 AM

If audio is your primary concern, then you need to be looking at new microphones, not new cameras!

Chris Hurd August 24th, 2007 10:47 AM

With the HV10, he can't look at other mics because there is no mic input on that camcorder. The *only* audio on the HV10 is the built-in mic. No way to connect an external mic. Two ways to do it with the HV20 though (standard 1/8th-inch stereo minijack; or Canon DM-50 stereo mic via the Advanced Accessory Shoe).

Joseph H. Moore August 24th, 2007 10:52 AM

He bought the Sony instead of the HV10, and is now looking at the HV20, if I understand correctly.

Kevin Carter August 24th, 2007 07:35 PM

thanks Dave, from you comments, I'm leaning to the 7, which of course is nice as I already know the 3. I hear great things about Canon, but my hunch is the 7. My main concerns are the on camera sound and stabilization.

Sorry Joe, my projects don't use external mics.

yes, I bought the hdr-hc3, sound is fine, not sure about the stabilization so what why I'm now looking at either the new 7 which is optical or the HV 20

Joseph H. Moore August 24th, 2007 09:43 PM

I can't think of any application where a rode videomic couldn't be used and yield a serious improvement in sound no matter the camera.

Tom Alexander August 24th, 2007 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph H. Moore (Post 733951)
I can't think of any application where a rode videomic couldn't be used and yield a serious improvement in sound no matter the camera.

True, except that the HC-7 won't take the Videomic. You must use a Sony proprietary mic. Thats one of the main reasons that I chose the HV20 over the HC7 (are you listening Sony????)

Dave Blackhurst August 25th, 2007 02:57 AM

Tom -
The HC7 has a 1/8" mic input, same as the HV20 - and for $20 B&H has an adapter that allows the HC3 and 5 to take a regular mic through the AIS...

My primary issue with the onboard HV20 mics was they picked up EVERY sound from the plastic shell (don't forget mech noise) - and the sound overall just wasn't "there" - definitely called for an external mic.

Kevin Carter August 25th, 2007 11:37 AM

rode videomic
what this mean?

ON issue of sound:
I'm just talking on camera sound, the Sony hc7 has the mic front and center, the Canon HV20 still has mic on top of camera. Has anyone tested both? My guess is that it's better having it on front for recording people talking to the camera, which is what I do.

As far as putting a mic that attachment to and sticks out from the camera, I tested one Sony product and it did not sound better than the on camera mic.

Joseph H. Moore August 25th, 2007 12:04 PM

Rode VideoMic:

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Pro...oduct=VideoMic

There are similar products from other companies, as well. You still have to be careful to not record motor noise, but the sound quality trounces any built-in mic. Plus, when you do get into a scenario where you can detatch it, you have that flexibility.

Tom Alexander August 25th, 2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst (Post 734029)
Tom -
The HC7 has a 1/8" mic input, same as the HV20 - and for $20 B&H has an adapter that allows the HC3 and 5 to take a regular mic through the AIS...


Interesting. Camcorderinfo.com's review of the HC7 says that only Sony brand mics were compatible with the HC7, although in the same paragraph it mentions the 3.5mm jack. It then goes on to criticize Sony for "pigeonholing their consumers in order to maximize brand recognition." with regards to compatibility with external microphones. Confusing.

So it can take a Rode Videomic?

Dave Blackhurst August 25th, 2007 06:31 PM

Hi Tom -
Yes, there is a standard minijack hidden in the front face of the camera, right between the onboard mics and the strap attachment, just under the IR receiver panel... it's a bugger to find actually! Is very well hidden when covered!

Personally, Kevin, I've owned both cams - I didn't like the onboard mics on the HV20 for the reasons mentioned - I did a 4 cam shoot with the HV20, 2 HC7's and an FX7 - the audio track of the HV20 was tossed on the first review. This was strictly on the basis that it just sounded thin to my ear compared to the other tracks from the other cameras - it might have passed muster standing alone, but with other usable tracks I'll toss the least effective one(s) ASAP to simplify later editing.

From a purely practical standpoint, I think you'll find almost everyone using an HV20 is adding a Rode... or other external mic - there is a reason for this.

I've got the gun/zoom Sony for the HC7, but it's not a huge step up from the onboard mics, which sound fairly decent. I add it on more for looks than for "audio". I think I'd be comfortable shooting with the onboard mics of the 7 - the HV20, I'd be developing a nervous tick if I had the headphones on. In fact, there's a good test for you - take a set of earbuds or headphones with you and A/B the two cameras - you don't even have to record to hear the huge difference between them. Pay close attention to chassis noise, and put a tape in if you can to compare mech noise - I've heard the motor whine noticeably on most HV20 samples I've listened to.

This isn't to dog the HV20, it's an INSANE deal at the price point, but like anything else, if you buy a burger at Mickey D's, you know it's not going to be the best burger ever... but it'll do nicely sometimes! I'd rather go for the CJ's $6 burger myself...

Canon busted the HDV market wide open with the HV20, its got great video quality, many seem to prefer it to the Sonys, and "out of the box" it is sweet, but after posting, I ended up back with the Sony being my preferred cam of choice. Maybe if the 24p was more accessable/usable I'd have felt differently (nothing like a high profile feature ya can't USE without jumping through hoops or spending more $$... ), probably didn't hurt I've got a pile of Sony accessories around, but in the end the HC7 won out for me... YMMV!

Kevin Carter August 25th, 2007 07:08 PM

thanks Joseph:
does the video mic work with hc3? ( I may stay with this camera -- turns out the steady shot is not so bad after all..we'll see)

If not is there equivilant?

what does it do that trounces the built in mic?

I was just watching video today, and noticed that when real tight, sound was ok, but just bit farther away, I hear cars outside and dogs barking etc, horrible -- would this help with that?

thanks Dave, owners of HV 20 are adding Rove becasue the Canon mics are on top on camera as opposed in front like Sonys? Maybe Sony's don't need it?
Yes, staying with Sony for now. why do some people prefer the video on Canon to Sony? maybe I should do a test at some point. and must ask, if you know, what is the hc7 doing for you that the hc3 does not, if you know the hc3


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