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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old September 4th, 2007, 04:52 AM   #1
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Intercutting HV20 with XH-A1

I posted this over on the XH-A1 forum but yet to get a response from anyone who apparently uses both together ... so I thought I'd give it a try here!

"I realise there are a number of posts discussing using the HV20 as a deck and B roll for the XH-A1.

My question is, as of today, is there a consensus emerging as to what settings (including XH-A1 presets) best match those on the HV20.

I have both cameras but have yet to use them together on the same project.

For regular work with the XH-A1 I have settled on not using any custom preset but making any required changes in post (Vegas 7). In this regard would it be appropriate for an event where there is stage lighting to use eg a vivid* preset to dramatise the already artificial colours produced by the stage lighting?

The event is a school play and I have read the various threads suggested by Boyd Ostroff (and others) but would be keen to hear experiences with the above cameras & the settings used or suggestions from those experiences.

Presently I plan to shoot as follows (in am in PAL land):-

Positioning: HV20 set wide & high as possible (back probably in the centre of the house) with the XH-A1 capturing closer shots, positioned well back but to one side.
White balance: both set to tungsten preset (3200) (may be difficult to manually white balance).
Shutter: 50
Frame rate: XH-A1 25F, HV20 25P
Exposure: use 70 zebras on both cameras to only just show on a face in central position on the stage & lock exposure for duration on both.
Gain: on XH-A1 0 (HV20: no manual gain avail)
Preset: XH-A1 – CP=OFF* HV20 – (Image Effect – neutral*)
Focus: Manual on both (will have a 7” LCD to assist on HV20)
Optical stabilizer: OFF on both
Sound: hopefully a feed (XLR) from sound board or alternately use a ME66/K6 shotgun attached to Sennheiser G2 radio mike (possibly suspended above the stage pointing down) together with a backup mini-disc with small Sony stereo mic (ECM-MS907), positioned at the front of the stage.

Any suggestions or criticisms would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Graham"
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Old January 1st, 2008, 07:18 PM   #2
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I am interested in this too.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 11:45 PM   #3
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I’ll share what I know after producing 2 DVD’s with a XH-A1 and HV20 combo, but be advised that I am a newbie just stumbling along.

Both DVD’s were of stage performances with the standard challenge of dealing with lighting directors. I set both cameras to fixed daylight white balance, so at least they would be consistent. I decided to produce DVD’s that were as “colorful” as the performances, and only correct to match the cameras. Note: everything was shot in HDV 1080i/ 60.

The first DVD was of a community Ballet performance. I ran the A1 as the primary camera with the HV20 as backup. Both cameras were on tripods at the rear of the theater. The HV20 was in cine mode, autofocus on, stabilizer on (fixed tripod). The A1 was run manually with no presets. Manual focus, stabilizer off, (I run Zebras at 100%). No ND’s needed, f stop between 4 and 5.6 Gain 0.

Results: The color match between the two cameras seemed very similar so did not color correct, but most of the DVD was the A1 camera, with the HV20 covering just a few glitches.

Lessons Learned: I set the focus at a stage midpoint prior to the performance, and did not have good monitor to realize that it was less crisp when the dancers were at the front or back. Now with more A1 experience, I would trust the auto focus. Also, I fed direct control room sound to the A1, which made for a great soundtrack later, but it did not have the audience applause… mixed that in later from the HV20.

The second DVD was of a Blues Band performing in a local theater. This time the A1 was run from a tripod in the balcony, manned by a close friend with a 1 hr training session. I ran the HV20 from the edge of a stage, moving around with a monopod getting close ups.

The A1 was now loaded with the vivid RGB preset, autofocus on, stabilizer off, manual mode. The HV20 was on Cine mode autopilot & stabilizer ON.

Results: The Cine mode HV20 seemed more natural than the A1 with Vivid RGB…BUT that was for the lighting of the performance which was, shall we say, unique. Turns out that I am editing in Avid (&still learning) so the color correction was easy. Just matched a face color from the two cameras, got a correction preset, and use the same preset on all the A1 shots. Results were good … i.e. hard for us newbie’s to tell a difference. The exposures of booth cams looked similar, and correct for the event (A1 manual, HV20 auto)

Lessons Learned: I expect great results from the A1, and the A1 (and my friend running it) came through like champs. The A1 autofocus did better than I did before (& never got lost). The big surprise was the quality of the HV20 shots. I occasionally used the monopod resting on the floor, and the HV20 shots were rock solid. But I also moved a lot with the monopod acting as steady cam balance weight, and the results were amazing… much like crane shots. All I did was point the HV20 and fight with the zoom control, and the results fit perfectly with the A1.

It would be nice to have a HV20 “preset” for the A1, but it was so easy to color correct in post that I no longer think about it.

Bottom line, The A1 and HV20 are different, but great cameras… easily complementing each other. After producing two DVDs, I have no regrets about the cameras, and I am just amazed that that the 101 things that could have gone wrong, didn’t.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 11:57 PM   #4
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Terry, for a newbie tumbling along, you write a damn good post. Thanks from the newbies stumbling along behind you :)
Cheers.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:16 AM   #5
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I just did a color matching with clips from XHA1 and HV20. This one seems to be a lot easier to match. I noticed if there're a lot of RED in the video, it makes it very difficult to match.

I shot both full auto mode on both XHA1 and HV20. Match them using Matrox color correction. The result is pretty darn close.
Attached Thumbnails
Intercutting HV20 with XH-A1-rosahv20.jpg   Intercutting HV20 with XH-A1-rosahv20cc.jpg  

Intercutting HV20 with XH-A1-rosaa1.jpg  
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:18 AM   #6
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This is another wedding job I tried to match. it was very difficult because of the RED color.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....9&postcount=13
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taky Cheung View Post
I just did a color matching with clips from XHA1 and HV20. This one seems to be a lot easier to match. I noticed if there're a lot of RED in the video, it makes it very difficult to match.

I shot both full auto mode on both XHA1 and HV20. Match them using Matrox color correction. The result is pretty darn close.
To me, the A1 looks reddish-bluish, and your color-corrected HV20 looks too bright and yellowish, still not an exact match. Original HV20 footage at least almost matches brightness-wise. But maybe this is just me, I am not trained to see subtle differences.
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Old January 3rd, 2008, 01:37 AM   #8
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HV20's original footage is way darker in other scenes than A1. I'm not expert in color correction. This is the second time I did it. There're room to improve.

Last edited by Taky Cheung; January 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 AM.
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