Question on film-like shutter speeds at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 27th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
Question on film-like shutter speeds

So, I know that shutter speeds slower than 1/48 are considered off limits when attempting to achieve the elusive film-like look, but what about shutter speeds faster than 1/48? Does a shutter speed of, for example, 1/100 say "this feels like film" in equal proportion to a shutter speed of 1/48 (all other variables like lighting, DOF, etc. being equal), or is 1/48 inherently more "film-like" than any other value? I already realize directors sometimes employ ultra-fast shutter speeds for stylistic effect, so disregarding that, are there any reasons for or against considering shutter speeds faster than 1/48 as equal to 1/48 in their ability to feel like film? For example, if I try to compensate for the fact that I'm shooting in really bright light by switching from 1/48 to 1/100, do I also thereby compensate (however subtly) the film-like feel of my footage (again, all other variables being equal), or is there really no difference so long as I stay at 1/48 or faster?
Mike A. Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2007, 12:32 AM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 300
1/48th gives you nice usable motion blur and that mixed with the "jitter" of 24p = film look, at least from what i've seen heard observed etc... when you crank up the shutter the "jitter" starts to become more pronounced, which some people like, and some people don't, the classic example is saving private ryan. i shoot a lot of 24p stuff over 1/48th, because i like having full progressive frames to pull screen shots from, and in general prefer a crisper image for most things... i typically shoot 1/48, or 1/24 when i'm specifically looking for that "film look" if i'm doing bands or other creative projects.
__________________
Compositing is my life right now.
IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3596782/
Austin Meyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Posts: 141
i actually find myself 1/24 is a little bit more smooth than 1/48 a bit less jerky. It does however motion blur a lot easy when objects are moving.
Jay Cowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2007, 11:17 PM   #4
Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 300
yeah 1/24 is nice in talking head and other low motion situations
__________________
Compositing is my life right now.
IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3596782/
Austin Meyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2007, 03:36 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 101
Hi Mike,
I would say higher shutter speeds make the film look more pronounced. The individual frames will differ more clearly because of decreased motion blur.

My observation from a creative pov: fast shutters on slow frame rates tend to 'freeze' the world. Imagine shooting a fountain. You would capture individual drops, round balls of water, frozen in time, 24 times per second. Even when played at normal speeds, the illusion of motion can break in those situations.
Also, as a side effect, you are a bit more likely to capture motion interference such as car wheels appearing to rotate backwards.

regs
Pieter
Pieter Jongerius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 01:44 AM   #6
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
Thanks for the helpful input, guys! I think I've got a handle on this now, but just to be certain, can anyone speak to this question specifically:

If I try to compensate for the fact that I'm shooting in really bright light by switching from 1/48 to 1/100, do I also thereby compensate (however subtly) the film-like feel of my footage (again, all other variables being equal), or is there really no difference so long as I stay at 1/48 or faster?

In other words, in film, is 1/48 the overwhelming norm for shutter speeds, with other values basically being creative, somewhat rare deviations from this norm, or is there really no predominant shutter speed, with 1/48 simply being the minimum preferred speed, above which there are equally prevalent speeds commonly used by filmmakers?
Mike A. Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 01:43 PM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. Jones View Post
Thanks for the helpful input, guys! I think I've got a handle on this now, but just to be certain, can anyone speak to this question specifically:

If I try to compensate for the fact that I'm shooting in really bright light by switching from 1/48 to 1/100, do I also thereby compensate (however subtly) the film-like feel of my footage (again, all other variables being equal), or is there really no difference so long as I stay at 1/48 or faster?

In other words, in film, is 1/48 the overwhelming norm for shutter speeds, with other values basically being creative, somewhat rare deviations from this norm, or is there really no predominant shutter speed, with 1/48 simply being the minimum preferred speed, above which there are equally prevalent speeds commonly used by filmmakers?

No, its not an issue of staying at or above 1/48. you should stay at 1/48.

watch saving private ryan or 28 days later to see what a shutter of above 1/48 looks like...its rawer and more stacatto due to the lack of motion blur. you will definitely notice the difference.

film cameras use a 180 degree shutter and thats part of what gives that distinct look. if you are adjusting shutter above 1/48 (180 degrees) not for stylistic reasons but because of lighting, i would say a better bet would be ND filters.
Adam Perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2007, 05:39 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 362
Also, if you're shooting 60i with the intent of creating slo-mo 24P, then you should use a higher shutter speed in order to stop the action. Minimum of 100/sec.
Joseph H. Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2007, 06:58 AM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 77
yep. if youre gonna shoot 60i for slo mo, go for 1/120
Adam Perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #10
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Perry View Post
No, its not an issue of staying at or above 1/48. you should stay at 1/48.

watch saving private ryan or 28 days later to see what a shutter of above 1/48 looks like...its rawer and more stacatto due to the lack of motion blur. you will definitely notice the difference.

film cameras use a 180 degree shutter and thats part of what gives that distinct look. if you are adjusting shutter above 1/48 (180 degrees) not for stylistic reasons but because of lighting, i would say a better bet would be ND filters.
Well, this is a bit overdue, but thank you!! That settles it.
Mike A. Jones is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network