taking HV20 to Ocoee River to shoot kayakers

Chris Barcellos · October 10th, 2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hollifield

Well, I went to the Ocoee Sunday, shot about 350 stills with my Nikon digi...got some great shots by the way, still posting on colemanroadproductions.com...then I hauled out the HV20. Don't think I will be doing any underwater stuff Matt....lol too old! Suprizingly enough the stuff turned out pretty good for my first time ever with a video. I figured auto white bal would overexpose the whitewater rapids, but it didn't. Of course to a more calculating eye it probably isn't acceptable, I would post, but I don't have a clue.
I'm now looking for a source to host my videos online...gonna do some realty stuff while I'm learning about this little camera. I like it! Thanks for all the advice...anybody know a video hosting svc pls let me know. tks..bob

I found that Cine mode with its wider latitude will work well in high contrast situation.

Bob Hollifield · October 10th, 2007, 06:12 PM

Thanks Chris...I'll try Cine next time I'm up there, which will be about 2 weeks...bob

Paul V Doherty · October 10th, 2007, 10:17 PM

Bob did you shoot regular interlaced 60i or did you try progressive 24p mode?

Bob Hollifield · October 11th, 2007, 03:30 AM

Paul, I carried two tapes, did one the regular way (didn't realize it was 60i...looked all over the menus for that term, finally just shot at A), then I went up river to a more scenic part and shot Cine, but I did it sepia. When I ran it, the sepia wasn't very pronounced (not like it is with still photos toned sepia) but the film was sort of lazy looking, the edges of everything looked a little muted. I don't know how to describe it...like it had a soft filter on it. I definitely want to experiment more with that setting. I had printed your instructions out and they were a big help..thanks again. I do know that I want to go back and record strictly for the purpose of slo-mo because when I looked at the video I realized I had great material based on what you said about things not moving past me...the kayaks just bob and weave and submerge..come back up, flip, but it's all done on a horizontal/vertical plane in front of you, not racing back and forth. http://ocoeeshooter.smugmug.com/gallery/3621772#P-4-15 Look at this photo on page 4 of the first gallery titled Ocoee Hellhole Sunday. This would be a hoot (as you suggested) in slo-mo. bob

Paul V Doherty · October 11th, 2007, 09:23 AM

Bob,

Anything shot at 60i can make good slo-mo in 24p.
I think in Automatic mode the HV20 probably tries to maintain a shutter speed of 1/60 - this will still work for slo-mo, but not as perfect as 1/120.
If you had a really really bright day the HV20 might have been forced to increase the shutter speed in Automatic mode - if so, you're in luck and you will have better slo-mo.
You can check the shooting data by pressing "display" on the remote control - the HV20 should then show the shutter and apeture values on the LCD screen.

That's a great photo on the link you posted. Did you capture that particular moment on tape as well as still shots?
If you got it on tape at 60i then you can make it slo-mo.

I don't know the work flow for PC, but the general procedure for slo-mo is simple.
Begin by deinterlacing using field doubling. This means each 1/60 field becomes an entire 1/30 frame of video and each vertical line is doubled.
Likewise the duration of the video is doubled.
I think if you stretch your video by 200% most NLE's will perform the above steps as a matter of course.
This results in a halving of vertical resolution, but this is not a problem if your final format is SD because after applying slo-mo you are actually going from 1440x540 to 720x480 therefore there will still be some downrezzing even after the loss of resolution caused by the slo-mo process.
In a nutshell: Hi-Def source footage makes razor-sharp slo-mo SD footage!

Paul V Doherty · October 11th, 2007, 09:31 AM

I forgot to add:

60i is standard HDV mode.
Your HV20 offers two shooting modes:
HDV (i.e. 60i), and
HDV 24p (Canon calls it HDV24F in the menus I think - don't have my HV20 handy right now)
You can select either mode in the on-screen menus.
When you switch modes your HV20 will perform a sort of reboot for a second or two. After that you will immediately notice the distinct change in the feel of motion caused by the differences between 60i and 24p.

24p appears "jerky" or "strobey" to most people the first time they see it immediately after seeing the exact same scenes at 60i through the same camera - i.e. when they switch modes on their camera.

60i appears "smooth" "life-like" and "real" to most people - hence its use for reality shows, TV news, sports etc.

Brennan Callahan · October 11th, 2007, 06:18 PM

an excellent source for hosting online video is www.blip.tv
when viewing anything on that site, you can watch it in .flv (youtube quality etc) or the source format for full quality. And its free!

Bob Hollifield · October 15th, 2007, 07:07 AM

Sorry, I've been in Chicago for a few days and just now getting back online....Thanks Paul for that info, that is really helpful. Not sure if that shot is in the tape or not, but there are some that will look great in slo-mo when I get in place to try it. thanks again for all the help. Bob

Brennan, thanks for the link...I'll take a look at it...bob

George Ellis · October 22nd, 2007, 08:11 AM

Hey Bob, right around the corner. And Kenny at Showcase is a great guy.

It sounds like you are shooting from the bank as I did not see any mention of a housing. I do mountain biking, and as many frames as you can shoot of action footage is the route to go. You can "effect" it in post to 24p much better if you have the whole action. It gives you more lattitude for slo-mo too. I use two plug-ins in Avid (Pinnacle) Liquid that want 60i or 30p and understand nothing else. Those are my deshake plugins (ProDad Mercalli rocks!) and if you get to Point of View, run at 60.

//I shot a HC-7.

Bob Hollifield · October 23rd, 2007, 06:05 PM

Hey George...tks for the info. Shooting from the bank is correct...you're not about to get me in that whitewater. You're probably not a bluegrasser...got some friends who play at Everett's Music BArn out in Suwanee...great place. Gonna shoot them some nite when I learn a little more. bob

George Ellis · October 23rd, 2007, 06:25 PM

Not a bluegrasser, but I know Bob MacIssac. I forget the band name at the moment.

October 10th, 2007, 06:12 PM	#17
Bob Hollifield New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Roswell Ga. Posts: 19	Thanks Chris...I'll try Cine next time I'm up there, which will be about 2 weeks...bob

October 10th, 2007, 10:17 PM	#18
Paul V Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	Bob did you shoot regular interlaced 60i or did you try progressive 24p mode?

October 11th, 2007, 03:30 AM	#19
Bob Hollifield New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Roswell Ga. Posts: 19	Paul, I carried two tapes, did one the regular way (didn't realize it was 60i...looked all over the menus for that term, finally just shot at A), then I went up river to a more scenic part and shot Cine, but I did it sepia. When I ran it, the sepia wasn't very pronounced (not like it is with still photos toned sepia) but the film was sort of lazy looking, the edges of everything looked a little muted. I don't know how to describe it...like it had a soft filter on it. I definitely want to experiment more with that setting. I had printed your instructions out and they were a big help..thanks again. I do know that I want to go back and record strictly for the purpose of slo-mo because when I looked at the video I realized I had great material based on what you said about things not moving past me...the kayaks just bob and weave and submerge..come back up, flip, but it's all done on a horizontal/vertical plane in front of you, not racing back and forth. http://ocoeeshooter.smugmug.com/gallery/3621772#P-4-15 Look at this photo on page 4 of the first gallery titled Ocoee Hellhole Sunday. This would be a hoot (as you suggested) in slo-mo. bob

October 11th, 2007, 09:23 AM	#20
Paul V Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	Bob, Anything shot at 60i can make good slo-mo in 24p. I think in Automatic mode the HV20 probably tries to maintain a shutter speed of 1/60 - this will still work for slo-mo, but not as perfect as 1/120. If you had a really really bright day the HV20 might have been forced to increase the shutter speed in Automatic mode - if so, you're in luck and you will have better slo-mo. You can check the shooting data by pressing "display" on the remote control - the HV20 should then show the shutter and apeture values on the LCD screen. That's a great photo on the link you posted. Did you capture that particular moment on tape as well as still shots? If you got it on tape at 60i then you can make it slo-mo. I don't know the work flow for PC, but the general procedure for slo-mo is simple. Begin by deinterlacing using field doubling. This means each 1/60 field becomes an entire 1/30 frame of video and each vertical line is doubled. Likewise the duration of the video is doubled. I think if you stretch your video by 200% most NLE's will perform the above steps as a matter of course. This results in a halving of vertical resolution, but this is not a problem if your final format is SD because after applying slo-mo you are actually going from 1440x540 to 720x480 therefore there will still be some downrezzing even after the loss of resolution caused by the slo-mo process. In a nutshell: Hi-Def source footage makes razor-sharp slo-mo SD footage!

October 11th, 2007, 09:31 AM	#21
Paul V Doherty Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: USA Posts: 64	I forgot to add: 60i is standard HDV mode. Your HV20 offers two shooting modes: HDV (i.e. 60i), and HDV 24p (Canon calls it HDV24F in the menus I think - don't have my HV20 handy right now) You can select either mode in the on-screen menus. When you switch modes your HV20 will perform a sort of reboot for a second or two. After that you will immediately notice the distinct change in the feel of motion caused by the differences between 60i and 24p. 24p appears "jerky" or "strobey" to most people the first time they see it immediately after seeing the exact same scenes at 60i through the same camera - i.e. when they switch modes on their camera. 60i appears "smooth" "life-like" and "real" to most people - hence its use for reality shows, TV news, sports etc.

October 11th, 2007, 06:18 PM	#22
Brennan Callahan New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 15	an excellent source for hosting online video is www.blip.tv when viewing anything on that site, you can watch it in .flv (youtube quality etc) or the source format for full quality. And its free!

October 15th, 2007, 07:07 AM	#23
Bob Hollifield New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Roswell Ga. Posts: 19	Sorry, I've been in Chicago for a few days and just now getting back online....Thanks Paul for that info, that is really helpful. Not sure if that shot is in the tape or not, but there are some that will look great in slo-mo when I get in place to try it. thanks again for all the help. Bob Brennan, thanks for the link...I'll take a look at it...bob

October 22nd, 2007, 08:11 AM	#24
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Hey Bob, right around the corner. And Kenny at Showcase is a great guy. It sounds like you are shooting from the bank as I did not see any mention of a housing. I do mountain biking, and as many frames as you can shoot of action footage is the route to go. You can "effect" it in post to 24p much better if you have the whole action. It gives you more lattitude for slo-mo too. I use two plug-ins in Avid (Pinnacle) Liquid that want 60i or 30p and understand nothing else. Those are my deshake plugins (ProDad Mercalli rocks!) and if you get to Point of View, run at 60. //I shot a HC-7.

October 23rd, 2007, 06:05 PM	#25
Bob Hollifield New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Roswell Ga. Posts: 19	Hey George...tks for the info. Shooting from the bank is correct...you're not about to get me in that whitewater. You're probably not a bluegrasser...got some friends who play at Everett's Music BArn out in Suwanee...great place. Gonna shoot them some nite when I learn a little more. bob

October 23rd, 2007, 06:25 PM	#26
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Not a bluegrasser, but I know Bob MacIssac. I forget the band name at the moment.