DV Info Net - HG10 24P stuttering "myth"

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- Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/)

- - HG10 24P stuttering "myth" (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-vixia-series-avchd-hdv-camcorders/105293-hg10-24p-stuttering-myth.html)

getting back my 24 progressive frames into a 24p timeline.

Chris , are you saying that it is not possible to get the original 24 frames back without the 'interlace combing' on every 4th frame ?
I'm not seeing blur frames, I'm seeing severe combing.

I'm looking for the best possible recovery of the original 24 frames. From what you said, the C frame can be made from two seperate 60i frames. So it is there to be recovered, without combing showing up. Right ?

I have a 23.976 fps timeline in AE.

I have to do another test, to see if setting the shutter speed manually is prohibited when trying to get real 24p out of the HG10. That is my hunch.

-Les

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 757871)

But that's exactly how it's supposed to be... it's 24p within a 60i stream. Just like the Canon XL2 and Panasonic DVX100. See Adam Wilt's article and the accompanying graphic at:

http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#24pRecording

"The A, B, and D frames can be recovered by using two fields from the same 60i frame. The C frame cannot be; it is split across field 2 of the third 60i frame and field 1 of the fourth 60i frame."

See also http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0079/t.1976.html

"This sequence of four film frames being converted into 10 video fields is then repeated. This generates some "blur frames;" video frames containing two fields that have been derived from separate film frames."

The HG10 isn't performing differently from any other camcorder using basic 24p.

After Effects should have nothing to do with it, as I said I am using Cineform HDLink tool to convert the stream to 23.976 FPS. By the time it hits AE, I should be safely away from interlace hell .
Maybe setting the shutter speed is illegal when doing 24P on the HG10 ?
-Les

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Jouravlev (Post 757968)

As Adam's article points out, frame C can be restored from two 60i frames, where one field of frame C is taken from the third frame, and another from the fourth frame. As he points out, the frames have to be recompressed, degrading video. Also, if it is HDV, the chroma loss will occur (this topic was discussed on DVX forum).

But with all above said, there should be NO interlace artifacts, at least in luma. I suppose that After Effects is just not advanced enough to restore split frame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Dit (Post 758014)

After Effects should have nothing to do with it, as I said I am using Cineform HDLink tool to convert the stream to 23.976 FPS.

Well, then Cineform it is.

I'm trying my own tests of the posted sample footage using Cineform, but I'm getting some really strange results with substantial jerky motion during pan. The interesting thing is I see the same sort of odd motion in the originaly posted AVCHD clips, so I don't know for sure if there's an issue with the HG10 encoding or not.

Does anyone know of a specific downloadable clip from the HG10 in 24p-in-60i format that they would recommend as a good starting point for 24p transcode testing?

Thanks,

Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Jouravlev (Post 757968)

I suppose that After Effects is just not advanced enough to restore split frame.

As Les says, and believe me, After Effects can and does work every single time in detecting cadence of 24P footage in a 60i stream - doesn't matter the codec (or for that matter the camera). 6 steady months of working in AE with footage shot with these great value (inexpensive) Canons, and AE has never had an issue. I recommend anyone use AE if they have to test that they're doing it right. I've seen Compressor have issues with footage - got confused when using various codecs with 24P in it - AE figured it out fine though ;)

I know this is years old but I just got an HG10. Did a clip in Toast, converted to a Quicktime movie and had no problem at all. Am I to assume the technology has caught up and the 24p issues have all been worked out (I mean it is three years later right). Got an HG10 for $369 (What a freakin' deal) and plan to shoot some stuff. Any tips anyone wants to throw my way. I'm on a Mac and will be using either Shedworx or Toast to transcode.

-Nate