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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old October 24th, 2007, 04:24 PM   #1
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HV20 SD Capabilities?

Hi everyone I'm reluctantly looking on selling my Xl1s and buying the HV20 to replace it because I'm getting to old and I need a smaller camera to pack around. I want to video in HD and down convert to SD and mix it in with my XL2 footage. From what I've read the down converted results from the hv20 should be very close to the XL2 footage right? Another question is how much can I zoom in on the HD footage during editing and keep good quality SD footage. The resolution of HD is at least 4x greater than SD does this mean during editing I can zoom in on the HD image 4 times its original size and I would still have SD quality footage? Thanks.

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Old October 26th, 2007, 06:49 AM   #2
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Have not tried it, but in decent lighting the you should be able to get a good match. As light level drops, the HV20 image will probably suffer compared to the XL2.

A lot of the quality issue in down converting from HDV to SD depends on the work flow/transcoding tools used. Some are much better than others. I have not yet broken the code for the "best" affordable method of going from HDV from an A1 to SD on a DVD.

One way of looking at it, a 2X digital zoom on a HD image should roughly corresponds to SD; e.g., 480 vs 1080 scan lines). However, there are other factors a play such as possible compression artifacts (MPG2 vs DV), camcorder quality, and so on.
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Old October 26th, 2007, 11:39 AM   #3
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Thanks for the info Don. I need more optical zoom the 10x just doesn't cut it. I'm so use to the xl series and the big zoom capabilities especially with the ef adapter. Its going to take some time getting use to the 10x. Since I made the post I was able to find a few extenders for the hv20 that might help. They are the Raynox 2.2x and a 3x which might be promising. I've been doing a lot of research trying to find a good quality optics in a small camcorder. My best results so far has been the GL2 which I've used quite a bit but I need something smaller than the GL2. I've found some older sony trv hi8 cameras that look good but I'm reluctant on buying something that old. The pani GS series also look good but once again the zoom power is not very good. I was hoping I could find something with at least 20x optical zoom that is smaller than a GL2 and has good image quality that can closely match my XL2. IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR. I don't need any other features like 24p and stuff like that. All I need is good quality footage, at least 20x zoom, good low light and maybe manual focus thats it. If anyone knows if there is a camera out there that meets my needs please let me know. Thanks
Joe
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Old October 26th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #4
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From my limited experience with extenders on this camera, I think you will find that the CA issues will become problematic with the 2x extenders..... Please let us know if you find out otherwise !!
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Old October 26th, 2007, 11:55 AM   #5
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You don't want much <g>.

Forget any Hi8 camcorder, especially the consumer models. They will not come even close to the XL2 in terms of picture quality (although there were I believe that there very few 3-CCD models that did provide a nice image (for the day) in good light, but that would be lost in the Hi8 tape format.

On telephoto and wide angle adapters, in optics you tend to get what you pay for. Low cost adapters, are, well, low cost, and typically the image quality will correspond. That may or may no meet your needs, so evaluate and test if yo can before you lay out the cash.



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Old October 26th, 2007, 03:29 PM   #6
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Thanks for the replies after doing some more research I think I'm going to get the hv20, a dm-50 mic and 3 different telephoto lens and test them out for myself and I can sell what I don't like. I've found the what might not be acceptable for one person might be fine for me and my needs and vis versa. I'll post my results after I get all the stuff and get a chance to experiment with it all.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #7
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Joe,
You'll be very pleased with the HV20 image. The controls suck, but the image is great. If you're end use is SD, you can effectively double the image magnification in your head, combined with a 2x adapter you should have all the telephoto you want.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 10:28 AM   #8
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Thanks Joseph thats what I wanted I wanted to hear, but since my last post I checked up alittle more on the hv20 as far as editing HD footage and its starting to look like I need a new computer to edit HD. So I'm alittle bumbed at the moment because this would definitely be a deal breaker for me and I wouldn't be able to get the hv20. I don't know for sure if this will work for HD editing even if my final product is SD but this is what I have .

2 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
1 gig ram
Premiere Pro 1.5
Canopus procoder 2

If anyone knows if this would be enough of a computer to handle HD please let me know. As far as my motherboard I think its an edius but don't know for sure. I'm not the most computer savvy person so I don't know what I need to check for.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 10:36 AM   #9
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I don't know about the software, I used FCP, but the hardware should be okay. Remember, HDV is the same data rate as DV, so you don't need a supercomputer to work with it.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph H. Moore View Post
I don't know about the software, I used FCP, but the hardware should be okay. Remember, HDV is the same data rate as DV, so you don't need a supercomputer to work with it.
Not quite right. To capture, it is the same. However, in order to be able to see a frame, the processor has to look back and refer to other frames to fill in the current frame.... making the editing and actual playing of the video processor and/or video card intensive.

Intermediate codecs like Cineform do a one time conversion to files that do not have that same demand on the system, making it easier to edit, color grade, etc...
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Old October 29th, 2007, 12:21 PM   #11
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Chris,
You're right of course, it is more demanding to edit than DV, but not terribly so. If he's running a dual 3.2 GHz Pentium 4, he's got more than enough CPU power to edit HDV.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 01:00 PM   #12
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It will take me about 3 more years of video to actually get enough footage to finish my project. I really don't need to start editing until then so if my existing computer can't handle HD very well I could always save up for the next 3 years and by then I should have enough cash to get a new PC. There are a few powerful computers right now that can handle HD editing and if the computer market stays the same as it is now then in 3 years these computers should be way cheap compared to the current prices so I'll just wait to get one then. At least this way I'll have my whole project in HD and maybe by then there will more advances in the technology and more people will have HD TVs, players etc. Then I could burn my project to a DVD in HD instead of SD.
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Old October 29th, 2007, 01:19 PM   #13
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There are LOTS of computers that can handle editing HDV. I wouldn't sweat it.
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