HV20 working out well for greenscreen!

Les Caudle · February 2nd, 2008, 11:41 AM

Ben - I have a small suggestion for dvMatte Pro.

I use Logic Pro Studio. With any fader in Logic Pro, you can adjust the fader, and option-click it to bring it back to the neutral position.

You might consider doing this with dvMatte Pro. The default position is not always at 0 or the middle point (2 for vBlur fader) and when fiddling with things, it is always nice to be able to quickly go back to the default position with an option-click on the fader.

Ben Syverson · February 2nd, 2008, 06:42 PM

Hmm... That's really a host issue. To implement that, I'd have to code a custom interface, which would break a lot of nice features that built-in parameters get for free from the host.

In Motion, you can click on the parameter's little "-" menu to the right, and choose "reset parameter." But FCP is a little behind in terms of their parameter UI. They are working on it though -- they just added parameter groups like Motion has. So they might be open to suggestions. :)

Ben Syverson · February 2nd, 2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Caudle

Ben - is there an ideal stacking order to dvMatte Pro3 plug-ins?

In order from first applied to last applied (they're visually flipped in FCP vs Motion), this would be typical for stuff I've been working on:

1. dvmatte screenfix (to neutralize the screen)
2. VTK garbage collector (to clean up noise on the screen interior)
3. VTK chromaclean (to soften the chroma channels just a bit)
4. dvmatte pro
5. dvmatte match (totally optional)
6. dvmatte wrap (again, totally optional)

If you want to use dvmatte match or dvmatte wrap after dvmatte pro, you want to make sure you have the Blend > Amount set to 0. That's a bummer, because Blend adds a lot of fine detail. So what I usually do is apply everything up to dvmatte pro, and then set the View in dvmp to "background with blend." Then I duplicate the whole deal (the clip or the layer, either way) and lay it on top of itself. On the top copy, I set Blend > Amount in dvmp to 0, and then apply match or wrap. You'll get the benefit of Blend, but still be able to use match and wrap.

It sounds more confusing than it is -- I'll do a screencast soon. :)

Anthony Torres · February 2nd, 2008, 07:54 PM

Ben,

What is VTK garbage collector and chromaclean? Where do you get it? Google and Dogpile aren't returning any info.

Also- any idea on the source of probs with Final Cut 6 and dvMattePro3 as per my other posts on this thread? DVMP doesn't return the same problems in Motion 3. It opens and renders in Motion 3.

I'm want to purchase it, but the Final Cut Pro problem is a problem. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Anthony Torres

Ben Syverson · February 3rd, 2008, 02:03 AM

Anthony, this is not a general issue with FCP 6 and dvmp 3. I'm not sure why you're having problems, but I'll send you a PM first thing tomorrow with the latest build to see if that fixes anything.

The VTK (Video Toolkit) is a suite of plugins I'm releasing through dvGarage -- it's not up on the site now, but it will be shortly.

Les Caudle · February 3rd, 2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Syverson

In my last post I mentioned wanting to be at 70% RGB -- I should have been more specific. What you really want is to be at:
R: 0% G: 70% B: 0%

In fact, 80% may be a better target unless you have tons of highlight detail (read: blonde hair) to deal with.

The shot that I used to compare HDV and HDMI had a widely ranging background, with a midpoint somewhere around:
R: 24% G: 65% B: 38%

...which means that there's only an average of around 34% difference between the green channel and the R&B channels. The more we can increase this distance, the better, because more difference translates directly to more subtle edges and lower the noise in our matte.

This is where I think the Rosco Chroma Green gels will be really helpful, by knocking down the R&B output of your screen lights so that your screen has no choice but to bounce green light back to you. You'll never get to 0% in R&B, but you should feel proud if you can get to:
R: 10% G: 70-80% B: 10%

If you can get that level pretty evenly across your screen, you should be able to make a simply incredible composite.

Ben - if you do find the time to make a 'screencast' (would that mean using Snapz Pro to capture screen and audio to a mov?) - It would be great if you could also demonstrate using scopes and any appropriate tools to get the best lighting and color on the screen screen.

I purchased those same green filters, so I'm trying to get the best setup as possible.

BTW - I make my living on the 'dark side' of the Apple/Micosoft universe using the C# and Microsoft's SQL Server database. About 20 years ago, I used to code for the Mac. So - in regards to my option-click suggestion, I understand entirely how making a seeming small change can involve a whole lot of programming time. I have to explain that to my clients all the time.

Anthony Torres · February 9th, 2008, 07:39 PM

Ben,

Hey! I'll be buying DVMP3 this week. Just curious if the download will be the latest build, or if I should contact you for the build after purchase?

Whatever's easiest.
Best, Anthony Torres

Les Caudle · February 14th, 2008, 09:07 PM

Ben - I just moved from an old Mac Pro with the lowest video card to the new Mac Pro with an 8800GT.

I sucked in all of my old files and settings.

However, when I open FCP 6.0.2, I get a red screen in the viewer that says:

Unable to load effect

dvMatte Pro.

I can see the normal dialogs in the filters tab for dvMatte Pro.

How can I resolve this? I tried re-installing dvMatte Pro.

Les Caudle · February 15th, 2008, 10:29 PM

Ben - I re-installed FCP 6 - and now dvMatte Pro 3 seems to work now in FCP.

Will test more tomorrow and in Motion.

Sorry - thought it was the new 8800GT video card that was the problem.

Les Caudle · February 25th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Ben - still on 10.5.1 - can't wait until 10.5.2 and the graphics upgrade for the 8800GT. I bet it will really speed things up!

Out of curiosity, what is your render time for 1920x1080 24p with screenFix and dvMatte Pro 3 with all the latest Apple updates?

Is this different in FCP as opposed to Motion (which is preferred to render in?)

But - even as things are, I'm getting great results from dvMatte Pro 3.

I found two things really helped.

1. Lock the focus on the HV20 so that the 'screen only' shot is focused the same as the shot with the 'talent' in front of the screen. The 'screenFix' plug-in works amazingly well if the 'screen only' is shot this way.

2. A hair light from back and above seems to really help with spill from the lights - and make working with even blond hair against a green screen even better.

---
I'm very happy! Incredible that I'm getting such great results while I'm not even starting to tap the potential of your plug-in (as I've yet to make very many adjustments to really fine-tune it).

Ben Syverson · February 28th, 2008, 02:35 PM

Great to hear the plugin is working for ya, Les!

Render time will vary based on the graphics card, so it's hard to make useful comparisons that way -- also, render time will be slower than the FPS/responsiveness you get in Motion, since rendering to a file involves doing a readback from video ram, which is slower than simply sending the dvmatte'd footage to the display.

In terms of render quality, there is 0 difference between FCP and Motion.

Also, about blonde hair against green: this is the one case where you might want to come down on the screen lights slightly. I've gotten good results with the screen level at 60-70% (as opposed to 90%) when keying blonde hair...

Hope this helps!

Les Caudle · February 29th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Ben - let me know what you thought of that video I sent you. Almost no work involved when good still of green screen using your included ScreenFix plug-in, but I've got a lot to learn to fully use dvMatte Pro!

So, I know how to but a single background into dvMatte Pro. That works great.

But, how do I put multiple backgrounds into a single video with dvMatte Pro?

Les Caudle · March 11th, 2008, 06:28 PM

Ben - I'd still like some advise on the best way to use dvMatte Pro 3 with multiple backgrounds in the same clip (all shot on same green screen, different backgrounds to replace the green screen).

My guess is that when I copy the background to dvMatte Pro's plug-in config - it uses the loaded background to decide how to make the edges more realistic.

If I just had a background on another video track, would it be able to do the same thing - use the background video track?

If not, how can I set it up so that if I have several backgrounds, that dvMatte Pro will be able to do its magic taking into account each new background?

February 2nd, 2008, 07:54 PM	#109
Anthony Torres New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 16	Ben- What is VTK Chromaclean Ben, What is VTK garbage collector and chromaclean? Where do you get it? Google and Dogpile aren't returning any info. Also- any idea on the source of probs with Final Cut 6 and dvMattePro3 as per my other posts on this thread? DVMP doesn't return the same problems in Motion 3. It opens and renders in Motion 3. I'm want to purchase it, but the Final Cut Pro problem is a problem. Any suggestions? Thanks, Anthony Torres

February 9th, 2008, 07:39 PM	#112
Anthony Torres New Boot Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 16	Is Newer Build avail. for Purchase? Ben, Hey! I'll be buying DVMP3 this week. Just curious if the download will be the latest build, or if I should contact you for the build after purchase? Whatever's easiest. Best, Anthony Torres

February 14th, 2008, 09:07 PM	#113
Les Caudle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 45	dvMatte Pro not working on MacPro with 8800GT? Ben - I just moved from an old Mac Pro with the lowest video card to the new Mac Pro with an 8800GT. I sucked in all of my old files and settings. However, when I open FCP 6.0.2, I get a red screen in the viewer that says: Unable to load effect dvMatte Pro. I can see the normal dialogs in the filters tab for dvMatte Pro. How can I resolve this? I tried re-installing dvMatte Pro.

February 2nd, 2008, 11:41 AM	#106
Les Caudle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 45	Ben - I have a small suggestion for dvMatte Pro. I use Logic Pro Studio. With any fader in Logic Pro, you can adjust the fader, and option-click it to bring it back to the neutral position. You might consider doing this with dvMatte Pro. The default position is not always at 0 or the middle point (2 for vBlur fader) and when fiddling with things, it is always nice to be able to quickly go back to the default position with an option-click on the fader.

February 2nd, 2008, 06:42 PM	#107
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Hmm... That's really a host issue. To implement that, I'd have to code a custom interface, which would break a lot of nice features that built-in parameters get for free from the host. In Motion, you can click on the parameter's little "-" menu to the right, and choose "reset parameter." But FCP is a little behind in terms of their parameter UI. They are working on it though -- they just added parameter groups like Motion has. So they might be open to suggestions. :)

February 3rd, 2008, 02:03 AM	#110
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Anthony, this is not a general issue with FCP 6 and dvmp 3. I'm not sure why you're having problems, but I'll send you a PM first thing tomorrow with the latest build to see if that fixes anything. The VTK (Video Toolkit) is a suite of plugins I'm releasing through dvGarage -- it's not up on the site now, but it will be shortly.

February 15th, 2008, 10:29 PM	#114
Les Caudle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 45	Ben - I re-installed FCP 6 - and now dvMatte Pro 3 seems to work now in FCP. Will test more tomorrow and in Motion. Sorry - thought it was the new 8800GT video card that was the problem.

February 25th, 2008, 09:59 PM	#115
Les Caudle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 45	Ben - still on 10.5.1 - can't wait until 10.5.2 and the graphics upgrade for the 8800GT. I bet it will really speed things up! Out of curiosity, what is your render time for 1920x1080 24p with screenFix and dvMatte Pro 3 with all the latest Apple updates? Is this different in FCP as opposed to Motion (which is preferred to render in?) But - even as things are, I'm getting great results from dvMatte Pro 3. I found two things really helped. 1. Lock the focus on the HV20 so that the 'screen only' shot is focused the same as the shot with the 'talent' in front of the screen. The 'screenFix' plug-in works amazingly well if the 'screen only' is shot this way. 2. A hair light from back and above seems to really help with spill from the lights - and make working with even blond hair against a green screen even better. --- I'm very happy! Incredible that I'm getting such great results while I'm not even starting to tap the potential of your plug-in (as I've yet to make very many adjustments to really fine-tune it).

February 28th, 2008, 02:35 PM	#116
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Great to hear the plugin is working for ya, Les! Render time will vary based on the graphics card, so it's hard to make useful comparisons that way -- also, render time will be slower than the FPS/responsiveness you get in Motion, since rendering to a file involves doing a readback from video ram, which is slower than simply sending the dvmatte'd footage to the display. In terms of render quality, there is 0 difference between FCP and Motion. Also, about blonde hair against green: this is the one case where you might want to come down on the screen lights slightly. I've gotten good results with the screen level at 60-70% (as opposed to 90%) when keying blonde hair... Hope this helps!

February 29th, 2008, 04:33 PM	#117
Les Caudle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 45	Ben - let me know what you thought of that video I sent you. Almost no work involved when good still of green screen using your included ScreenFix plug-in, but I've got a lot to learn to fully use dvMatte Pro! So, I know how to but a single background into dvMatte Pro. That works great. But, how do I put multiple backgrounds into a single video with dvMatte Pro?

March 11th, 2008, 06:28 PM	#118
Les Caudle Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 45	Ben - I'd still like some advise on the best way to use dvMatte Pro 3 with multiple backgrounds in the same clip (all shot on same green screen, different backgrounds to replace the green screen). My guess is that when I copy the background to dvMatte Pro's plug-in config - it uses the loaded background to decide how to make the edges more realistic. If I just had a background on another video track, would it be able to do the same thing - use the background video track? If not, how can I set it up so that if I have several backgrounds, that dvMatte Pro will be able to do its magic taking into account each new background?