VIXIA HV30 announced -- pics - Page 4 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 10th, 2008, 02:06 AM   #46
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Y Wong View Post
my best guess is that it takes a single 30pprogressive frame and splits it into 2 60i fields. u will need to a deinterlace to restore back to original progressive frame
Is this what we should be doing in PAL land for 25p shot footage on the HV20?

Gosh i wish there were a few more additions to the HV30. Does anyone think they will give us proper metadata (or stream info) to show 24/25/30p flags etc? Woudlnt be to bad if this little gem of an update made it in. Though still not worth upgrading for 99.5% of HV20 owners.
__________________
Welcome... to the real world!
Daymon Hoffman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008, 10:02 AM   #47
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daymon Hoffman View Post
Does anyone think they will give us proper metadata (or stream info) to show 24/25/30p flags etc?
No change here, sorry (by the way pulldown flags are not needed for 25P or 30P).
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #48
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 658
Yeah,
but I just purchased my HV20.
So I returned it to B&H and will wait for the HV30
for me the better LCD (as I am using this with a 35mm adapter) is great.
30p is nice too.
enough of a reason to wait for a month
John Benton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2008, 09:57 PM   #49
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 7
Improvement...

Who are these yo-yos who say "30p is of little use to pros"? MANY "Pros" think 30p actually looks better than 24p. And no problem with judder. I might pick up one of these just for the 30p. Some of you have obviously been blinded by the "24p" hype. That's all it is folks... hype. Shallow DOF has MUCH more to do with your heralded "film look" than frame rate.

When one of you gets the HV30... do a little test between 24p and 30p for the shutterbugs here.. then be honest with yourself regarding which one actually looks better.
Walter Hunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #50
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 167
24p Question

Will the final product of shooting at 30p, importing to NLE and then exporting as a 24p file give the same film effect as the final product of shooting at 24p, removing pull-down, importing to NLE and then exporting as 24p? The reason I am asking is the removal of pulldown procedure is time-consuming (especially when there are no flags), and I was wondering whether one can achieve the same film effect simply by reducing the number of frames per second to 24 during export of a footage already shot and captured at 30 fps?

P.
Pedanes Bol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #51
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Posts: 348
It won't look the same because the shutter speed used by the camera is different.
Eugenia Loli-Queru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2008, 03:48 AM   #52
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Benton View Post
Yeah,
but I just purchased my HV20.
So I returned it to B&H and will wait for the HV30
for me the better LCD (as I am using this with a 35mm adapter) is great.
30p is nice too.
enough of a reason to wait for a month
I was set to order my HV20 from B&H right before Christmas. I am glad that I decided to wait. However, the $300 price difference is a fairly big deal considering the minor improvements. B&H is selling the HV20 for about $680 while the HV30 is gonna retail at $999. I suspect that the price will drop shortly afterwards.

The 30p mode would be great for the web productions that I create and the black color is much cooler, but I still don't know if that justifies the extra 300 bucks.
__________________
http://www.jamesrichardson.net
James Richardson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #53
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru View Post
It won't look the same because the shutter speed used by the camera is different.
Eugenia, can you explain further how the shutter speed will effect the film look of the footage other than effecting the exposure. Let's say at 24p mode you used a shutter speed of 1/48 and at 30p mode 1/60. Don't you think, as long as the exposure is compensated appropriately by aperture and/or gain, you should get 24 full frames in 24p mode and 30 full frames in 30p mode and the desired exposure?

Back to my question, will reducing the number of frames per second from 30 to 24 during export by eliminating 6 frames give you the same effect of film look compared to getting 24 frames from start?

P.
Pedanes Bol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2008, 02:58 PM   #54
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedanes Bol View Post
Will the final product of shooting at 30p, importing to NLE and then exporting as a 24p file give the same film effect as the final product of shooting at 24p, removing pull-down, importing to NLE and then exporting as 24p? The reason I am asking is the removal of pulldown procedure is time-consuming (especially when there are no flags), and I was wondering whether one can achieve the same film effect simply by reducing the number of frames per second to 24 during export of a footage already shot and captured at 30 fps?

P.
In the "old days" (nine months ago :) ), my understanding from various companies offering conversion programs, is that it was better to shoot in 60i, at 1/60, edit, and convert you final product to 24p using a "proper" conversion system. That provided preservation of a maximum amount of the preservable resolution in the process.

I have actually shot 60i footage on my FX1, and taken the captured files into Cineform's HDLink, doing pulldown removal to get 24p in the Conversion. David Newman at Cineform says you do lose resolution, but the resulting footage looked pretty good to me.
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #55
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 132
At least they didn't downgrade it, and they didn't raise the price on it... and black is way cooler IMO.

Seems like by coming out with a slightly upgraded version for less money, we can continue to capture outstanding video in the sub 1k range for a long time to come.

Any links to an official spec sheet anywhere?
Dale Backus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #56
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Dale -- official spec sheet at this link:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...elTechSpecsAct
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2008, 12:07 PM   #57
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bristol, CT. USA
Posts: 54
Is there any way to get 30p out the HV20 using 60i mode??

If so how, I'm assuming post processing???
Tony Parenti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2008, 01:42 PM   #58
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Cruz, California
Posts: 30
Yes you can, rather simply. It's called deinterlacing.

60i -> 30p = deinterlacing
60i -> 60p = bob deinterlacing

I'm constantly dismayed at the laughable quality of most deinterlacing algorithms in popular pro software. AviSynth for the win in this department. MCBob is kind of ridiculous, but very slow. Magic Bullet isn't bad, but AviSynth is better - and free! :)

If you're shooting 60i with the HV20 (or any HDV camera) it's recording 60i.

If you're shooting 24p, it's recording 60i - but the 60i has pulldown flags. Removing these flags (with a competent NLE or AviSynth) recovers the actual 24p that the sensors captured. There is no deinterlacing required - it's called field matching. Fields get moved around and so forth, but there's no interpolation performed. Hence it's a lossless process.

Deinterlacing is not lossless.

I'm not sure how the HV20 captures its images, if it performs its own internal (probably bad) deinterlacing, or if it actually acquires progressive images. I'm sure someone here knows ;)

~MiSfit
Derek Prestegard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2008, 03:00 AM   #59
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 57
From 24p standpoint 30p itself doesn't interests me that much but as a slow-mo shooting mode it's an excellent option. 30 -> 24 slow down will be great for subtler slowmo shots, and of course it doesn't lose vertical resolution.

HV30 is understandably a very conservative upgrade. Regardless of actual cost of adding more feature, I think Canon doesn't want to make their now 'vixia' line of cameras any more pro-friendly than they are now ;)

Derek,
HV20 (and 30) captures image progressively for 24p, which is why it garnered so much interest since announcement.
Euisung Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2008, 04:19 AM   #60
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Billericay, England UK
Posts: 4,711
Nice upgrade Canon, and kept well away from the XH-A1 by sticking with the rather slow (F/1.8) rather short (10x) and rather 'dull' focal lengths that immediately cry out for a wide-angle converter. But like other posters have said - the deserved sales success of this little wonder-cam show that Canon are a real pin-prick in Sony's side. All power to them.

tom.
Tom Hardwick is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:44 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network