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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
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Old February 8th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #1
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$750 for CanonHG10 - should I switch from HV20?

Hey.

I'm using an HV20, and there's two things I really don't like about it. A) Dropouts. B) The 24f in 60i reverse telecine process.

I was wondering if I should get an HG10 now that they're under $750 at Costco. I know HDV is better than even the best AVCHD files, but it's taking me weeks just to get my files in a format I can actually use... If the AVCHD files record directly to 24p and not in a "60i" wrapper, and if it ends the dropout problem, I'm all for it.

Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

EDIT: Nevermind. Just read [ on another web site ], the HG10 has a lot of trouble in 24p mode. That's a deal-killer.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:44 PM   #2
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...also you still have to remove the pulldown.......
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Old February 9th, 2008, 01:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyko View Post
Just read [ on another web site ], the HG10 has a lot of trouble in 24p mode. That's a deal-killer.
Nonsense... total BS. We proved that ridiculous claim wrong months ago.

I've removed the specific reference that you named for two reasons: first, because they're wrong, and second, because I have a policy against trash-talking another site by name (I'll certainly criticize them harshly, because they so strongly deserve it, but since discretion is the better part of valor, I won't do it by name). Basically you have to watch out for advertising-driven sites that go out of their way to tell you what's wrong with a particular product, even if they have to make it up out of thin air.

They made a bogus claim that there's something wrong with 24p on the HG10 and gave no proof for it whatsoever. But we've looked at 24p on both the HV20 and HG10, and couldn't find any difference, plus -- and this is most important -- we've got the video clips to back it up.

See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=101059
and http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=106626
and http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=105293

Do yourself a huge favor and stop reading anything other than DV Info Net.

And please, don't drag bogus claims and other nonsense from ad-driven sites into DV Info Net.

Thanks in advance,
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Old February 9th, 2008, 01:15 AM   #4
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Chris, tell us how you really feel. :)

> "Do yourself a huge favor and stop reading anything other than DV Info Net."

Excellent advise for anything related to digital video!
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Old February 9th, 2008, 04:28 AM   #5
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Hey it doesn't kill ya to dig through the misinformation on the internet (if it did, the internet would be toast in a millisecond!), it just makes it that much more refreshing when you find the one place where people with real names and actual hands on experience tell it like it is with only a moderate(d) amount of "opinion-atin".

Just because you read it on the Internet doesn't make it "true"...
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Old February 9th, 2008, 10:04 AM   #6
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Believe it or not, I held back in that post. Really I did.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 12:39 PM   #7
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So, do you think it's worth the upgrade? I'm -really- tired of dropouts on my tape - I lost a couple of really important money quotes in my last outing!

But now I'm reading that there's an "automatic" dropout on the 2GB file limit! :(
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Old February 11th, 2008, 02:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyko View Post
So, do you think it's worth the upgrade? I'm -really- tired of dropouts on my tape - I lost a couple of really important money quotes in my last outing!

But now I'm reading that there's an "automatic" dropout on the 2GB file limit! :(
See this thread. This fixes the 2(?) frames lost.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=113083&page=2
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Old February 11th, 2008, 02:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyko View Post
Hey.

I'm using an HV20, and there's two things I really don't like about it. A) Dropouts. B) The 24f in 60i reverse telecine process.

I was wondering if I should get an HG10 now that they're under $750 at Costco. I know HDV is better than even the best AVCHD files, but it's taking me weeks just to get my files in a format I can actually use... If the AVCHD files record directly to 24p and not in a "60i" wrapper, and if it ends the dropout problem, I'm all for it.

Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

EDIT: Nevermind. Just read [ on another web site ], the HG10 has a lot of trouble in 24p mode. That's a deal-killer.
24p mode is recorded in the 60i wrapper per the Canon user manual.
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Old February 11th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #10
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See this thread. This fixes the 2(?) frames lost.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...=113083&page=2
Okay, last question. Can I still use JES De-interlacer on my Macintosh in order to get that 24p out of the 60i wrapper?
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Old February 11th, 2008, 09:04 PM   #11
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Okay, last question. Can I still use JES De-interlacer on my Macintosh in order to get that 24p out of the 60i wrapper?
Found it. Bit the bullet - I returned some tapes to Costco (and luckily enough, my friend wants to buy my HV20) so, all in all, I'm out $300 net. And I never have to deal with another bloody tape again. Yee Haw!
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Old February 11th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #12
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IMHO 24p on my HG10 is gorgeous. It is my first foray into HD. I didn't want to invest a huge amount of money.

However, I am a Final Cut Studio 2 user, so I can't speak to the ability of any other software to properly extract the 24p material. I wish it wasn't so awkward to do it (why can't FCP do the cadence thingie at the same time as the transcoding to ProRes?) but I'm happy.

Remember, this is a C O N S U M E R camcorder. Someday we'll have the Red Scarlet (or something similar) that will make Real Movies, but for now, I consider my $800 well spent.
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Old February 12th, 2008, 05:26 AM   #13
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However, I am a Final Cut Studio 2 user, so I can't speak to the ability of any other software to properly extract the 24p material. I wish it wasn't so awkward to do it (why can't FCP do the cadence thingie at the same time as the transcoding to ProRes?) but I'm happy.
Steve, it can! At least the way I do it, which is a two step process. I a) start by importing the footage as regular footage, 60i with 24P inside, then b) run it through my custom setting in compressor converting it to ProRes with an reverse telcine added to get 24P. Maybe you already do it this way, and would like it easier, but this seems to work well for me.
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Old February 12th, 2008, 11:49 AM   #14
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Steve, it can! At least the way I do it, which is a two step process. I a) start by importing the footage as regular footage, 60i with 24P inside, then b) run it through my custom setting in compressor converting it to ProRes with an reverse telecine added to get 24P. Maybe you already do it this way, and would like it easier, but this seems to work well for me.
I'm importing the footage as 60i with 24p inside, but instead of running it through a custom setting in Compressor, I just use JES Deinterlacer and perform a reverse telecine to Photo-JPEG.
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Old February 12th, 2008, 03:30 PM   #15
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dropout is a fast forward rewind problem

I used HV20 to do some 35mm adapter footage and used a Tape Rewinder too. I saw lots of image freezing and sound disapearing in the footage. I used three tapes and the problem was in all. Some of this dropouts was recorded and I saw them everytime I rewind the tape and see again. Some image freezing disapear when I rewind the tape. So I concluded some dropouts was happening in playback.

Sudenly I had the Idea of rewind the tape in the camcorder and stop using the tape rewinder. The playback dropouts disapear. So I rewind the tape in camcorder and recorded again and rewind the tape in camcorder to do the playback. All the dropouts disapear. So I concluded the problem was the tape rewinder. So if you get dropouts (image freezing) do fast forward and rewind the tape in the camcorder and your new recording will be free of dopouts.
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