HV20 23.98/24P workflow. Frustrated! - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
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Old March 8th, 2008, 08:36 PM   #16
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I have also tried it with several different codecs, all of them yield the same result when rev. telecined in compressor. Take a really good look at some of your footage that you have done this process to. I'm curious to see how many duplicate frames you can find. Mine seem to present themselves at random.

JES has worked perfect for me every time and is simple to set up. Here is a screen shot of the adjustments that need to be made in JES De-Interlacer:
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HV20 23.98/24P workflow. Frustrated!-jes-shot.png  

Last edited by Ryan Mueller; March 8th, 2008 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Added pic
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Old March 8th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #17
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hmm I occasionally have the first frame goofed but haven't had any duplicates.

And the only difference in my compressor workflow is that I don't touch the frame rate, I just make sure its set to "current" in the qt vid settings.

One more ? When you blow those dup frames up to 100% is there any interlacing? I've found that the latest update to fcp handles interlacing different and instead of getting two interlaced frames they read as progressive but duped ( when looking at regular 24-in-60 stuff)

Also do you have any aja stuff installed? I installed the iohd drivers and one of the qt components broke comps ability to remove pulldown
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Old April 19th, 2008, 01:18 AM   #18
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I edited my HV10 movie in iMovie and uploaded it to Vimeo using their HD settings. It looked very soft for some reason, I was referred to JES also. Do I have to capture, use JES, then edit the results? Or can i run my finish video through JES and get the same results? Does editing change anything?
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Old April 19th, 2008, 02:37 AM   #19
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I can't believe After Effects hasn't been mentioned yet. I've tried them all (JES, Compressor, Cinema Tools, 24p extractor, ect) and for my SD footage After Effects simply gives me the cleanest transfer. It does not always guess the correct pull down but if you do the leg work, the image output is superb.

Just my 2c.

-C
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Old April 21st, 2008, 12:26 AM   #20
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I'm only going to stumble into this now.

So, really, you can't do this with Final Cut Studio 2?

You have to download a free app to do that?

Eugenia's website mentions something like "if you don't have a recent copy of Final Cut"...

...so if you do, you can do it in Final Cut.

Yes, this will show up over and over, because every new owner of a hv20/30 will run into this.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 02:03 PM   #21
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SD 24p?

I'm in the same predicament!

I just got my hv30 and shot a bit in hdv24.

I played back the footage using the tv out on an sd tv and it looks fantastic!

So I'm using the trial versoin of cs3 pro and I can only use the dv lock since the hdv presets are disabled intrial. No biggie. Only working in ntsc for awhile and the web anyway.

So when I use the widescreen DV24p preset and capture. I get pretty good results, not as good as just viewing the footage on an sd monitor but decent.Its soft and not as smooth.

When I try to start the project with an NTSC widescreen timeline 29.97, I get a bad stuttered look!

This is opposite of what I've been told!!!
This camera shoots 24 frames in a 1080i 60i interlaced timeline.
I should be using a 29.97 timeline but I get better results in 23.97?
Weird.

Am I doing something wrong?

All I want is to be able to see an equal qaulity when I capture as when I'm watching the footage through the tv out or watching the camcorder playback in the capture window. So far I'm unsuccessful.

You would THINK that ,that would be the EASIEST thing to do.
Just to capture that 60i signal 'as-is" and not worry about the pulldown and work in a 29.97 timeline but no.

Also, what should my feild settings be?
Frame blend? on/off?
Always deinterlace?
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Old April 21st, 2008, 02:36 PM   #22
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update

Just for reference, I captured clip in windows movie maker using the dv avi uncompressed setting.

Looks perfect.

Exported clip as wmv about 10mbs....looks damn good.

Imported original captured clip 150mb avi into premiere dv ntsc 29.97 timeline and looks like garbage.

What a joke.

I dont want to edit with MMaker! lol

Theres got to be a way without doing a bunch of pulldown removal?
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 07:30 PM   #23
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Hi guys,

I just tested out my HV20 (out of the box) with 24p enabled and tried the JES software that was recommended. Ended up with something like this:

http://vimeo.com/929988

I think it's not bad! :) What do you guys think?

Quote:
This is just a quick shoot with my Canon HV20 HD Camcorder to see what it can do out of the box. Playing with the focus and zoom. Granted not the best light, but I think it came out pretty nice. :)

The HV20 was set to FP24 HDV.

The clip was captured with iMovie and then passed through JES_Deinterlacer (3.2.4), which you can download (for free) here:
xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html

I think I may invest on:
cinevate.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=71&osCsid=dd12d8dc00079109dd149196745bea79 !!
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Old April 23rd, 2008, 07:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haitham Al-Beik View Post
Hi guys,

I just tested out my HV20 (out of the box) with 24p enabled and tried the JES software that was recommended. Ended up with something like this:

http://vimeo.com/929988

I think it's not bad! :) What do you guys think?
Awesome!

Too bad JES is only for mac!
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Old April 24th, 2008, 02:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Drews View Post
I can't believe After Effects hasn't been mentioned yet. I've tried them all (JES, Compressor, Cinema Tools, 24p extractor, ect) and for my SD footage After Effects simply gives me the cleanest transfer. It does not always guess the correct pull down but if you do the leg work, the image output is superb.

Just my 2c.

-C
So 30p worked well with cinema tools, without JES?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 09:40 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haitham Al-Beik View Post
Hi guys,

I just tested out my HV20 (out of the box) with 24p enabled and tried the JES software that was recommended. Ended up with something like this:

http://vimeo.com/929988

I think it's not bad! :) What do you guys think?
It's hard to tell if it's the Vimeo playback or something funky from the JES thingie, but it looks a bit jumpy to me, not the usual 24p look. It could just be my computer. Anyone else see this?
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Old April 26th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #27
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I looked at it again just to check. It's not jumpy on my machine (although it's a Quad-Core Mac Pro). Note that I took the footage while lying on the floor with my hand - so not the best "balance" :-P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper View Post
It's hard to tell if it's the Vimeo playback or something funky from the JES thingie, but it looks a bit jumpy to me, not the usual 24p look. It could just be my computer. Anyone else see this?
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Old April 27th, 2008, 11:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Drews View Post
I can't believe After Effects hasn't been mentioned yet. I've tried them all (JES, Compressor, Cinema Tools, 24p extractor, ect) and for my SD footage After Effects simply gives me the cleanest transfer. It does not always guess the correct pull down but if you do the leg work, the image output is superb.

Just my 2c.

-C
Have you tried TMPGEnc Xpress 4.0? It works incredibly well, and can pretty much convert anything to anything as long as the codecs are registered on your computer. Depending on if they are running a sale, it costs between $70 and $100. It's an amazing program that does much more than proper pulldown removal.
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 10:47 PM   #29
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Here's my workflow and it works like a charm and have never had an issue...

Capture M2T stream with DVHSCap
Demux to unscaled M2V and AIFF with MPEG Streamclip
Drop M2V into Compressor (3.0.3 on my G4) and use Apple's settings

Then I drop the 1440x1080 ProResHQ 24p file into FCP with the AIFF and have never had any problems with removing the pull-down even without each clip seperated. Compressor applies the correct pulldown removal on each shot.

This workflow isn't for everyone, I use it because my G4 is too slow to capture to another codec. I'd also rather go straight from the M2T to ProRes anyway.
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Old May 13th, 2008, 10:57 PM   #30
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Just thought I'd add my own recent experience to the thread.

I pretty much followed Apple's instructions for removing the pulldown as shown here under "HDV native capture, Compressor workflow":
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389 This is a doc for those using FCS2 / FCP6 where you capture HV20 24p footage at 60i in FCP and use Compressor to fix the interlaced frames.

The only difference was that I didn't want to convert all my footage into ProRes files like those instructions indicate. Instead I wanted to stay in native HDV so I just went into the compressor preset and changed the video settings “Compression type” from ProRes to "HDV 1080p24"

Then, like the instructions say, I changed the Frame Rate to Custom, and entered 23.976.

This worked and removed the pulldown, but when I got into FCP and used "Easy Setup" to make an "HDV 1080p24" project, something strange happened and the footage had repeated frames. I was confused but it ended up that the problem was not with the footage. The problem was with the "Easy Setup" settings on the machine I was using. Somehow the "QuickTime Compression" part of the "easy setup" on that machine was set to 1080i60 instead of 1080p24 like my clips.

This got me thinking and I went BACK into compressor with the original footage again. I reversed the telecine and set it to spit out a 23.976 HDV clip just like last time, but this time I set the "Compression" to "1080i60 instead of 1080p24. The result? Perfect 24p playback in QT and FCP, no interlacing, and file sizes that were 80% of the ones made using the 1080p24 Compression.

I just thought I'd mention this option here. I don't know exactly what's happening or exactly why it works (is it now interlaced again but FCP is playing it back correctly? Is it magic fairies slimming my files?), but I posted a thread about it in the Mac editing forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=121573
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