Canon HV40 discussion thread at DVinfo.net

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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old January 5th, 2009, 10:06 AM   #1
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Canon HV40 discussion thread

Read the HV40 details at this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-v...rs-2009-a.html

Discuss here if you wish...
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Old January 5th, 2009, 03:34 PM   #2
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I am personally disappointed that Canon added true native 24p just to the HV40 rather than the S10/S100 AVCHD cameras -- cameras that are obviously going to have a better image quality (new sensor, new lens, new encoding process that crams more quality at 24mbps than their previous cameras, gain support, and new zebra support -- a first for their AVCHD cameras). So it's like owning a race horse and a donkey, and instead of fixing the shoes on the race horse, you fixing it on the donkey. This is marketing madness, in my opinion.

I am a Canon HV20 user for 1.5 years now. Obviously seeing this classic HV series continuing on with new models (the HV series are possibly the most successful consumer camcorder series ever), brings tears of joy to me. But I am also a hard cold realist and I know where to draw a line between personal emotions and realism. Native 24p and Cinemode should have been a priority to be on their S10/S100 models too, not just in the HV40.

There is not much else to add for the HV40 I am afraid. Except the custom button and the true 24p support, nothing new was added. I mean, it's good to see a refresh, but I ain't gonna buy the HV40 when I already have an HV20 (and a free method to remove pulldown). On the other hand, Canon would have had my money if the S10/S100 had true 24p support and Cinemode, given the fact that the freeware methods of removing pulldown on AVCHD (as opposed to the better-understood and supported HDV footage) are not fool-proof (they quickly introduce A/V sync issues).

EDIT: It *seems* (I have not much info, but this seems to be the case) that Canon moved the Cinemode to the Colors settings in the S10/S100 instead of the main program mode as it is on the HV series. If that's true, that's a good thing. We will have to see...

Last edited by Eugenia Loli-Queru; January 5th, 2009 at 04:04 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old January 5th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #3
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I think it all depends upon whether you live (or want to live) in a world with or without tape. As someone with seven cams that are all tape I'm good with what Canon has done. If I wanted to move to tapeless, I'd be disappointed too.

Can't say I'll be going tapeless any time soon. It just won't work for what I do for some of the cameras and I don't want a workflow that has to deal with two kinds of footage. That's complexity I do not need. Perhaps tape will last as long as I do. Don't worry... I'm old.

BTW: I will use all seven cameras for many of the motor races I shoot.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 07:19 PM   #4
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HV40 True 24p

So has anybody discerned what is meant by true native 24p, as it contrasts with the HV30 and HV20. Because this is HDV, doesn't it still have to have pull down added to conform with HDV standards? Is it possible that the only difference is that the HV40 finally has flags inserted ? Thoughts anyone.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 07:28 PM   #5
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No clue here. I guess I'm the wrong guy to ask though. I thought there there were only two ways to do this, with a pulldown to 60i or real 24p. Oh so much to learn.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 07:46 PM   #6
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Yeah, I read Eugenias article at her own blog, and also went to Wikipedia. Canon sites says HV40 will have both "inside 60i stream 24p" and true native 24p. Wikipedia says native 24p is transmitted only over firewire at capture, and that it is actually converted at playback to HDV standards for video outputs from the camera. As far as native 24p, Canon A1 were first to have it, and Sony now have it it the Z7 and Z5u.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #7
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I use Wikipedia all the time, but doesn't always provide a complete discussion and it isn't infallible. The original XL H1 was the first Canon camcorder to record a progressive 24/25/30 fps image to tape, as well as transfer the full frames via 1394 to external devices (computer or another F-Mode capable camera) with Frame Mode. Firewire, aka 1394, just transmits the data; doesn't matter whether the bits represent interlaced or progressive frames. All XL and XH HDV cameras released since then can send a progressive image (Full "Frame Mode" frames) via 1394. Component and HD-SDI out of the cameras is converted to 2:3 60i.

There is an implication in the press release that the 24p of the HV40 is the same as the XL and XH 24F, but I don't know that for a fact (I hate it when my day job gets in the way of reading about new cameras!).

FWIW, I too wish the solid state cameras would get true progressive, although as a Cineform user it isn't that big a deal for me.
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Old January 9th, 2009, 07:21 PM   #8
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Another pioneer HV20 user here. It's nice to see the HV40 update. While it's a neat feature, it's a little late in coming, but I welcome it nonetheless. Still not enough of a reason to upgrade from my HV20. Maybe Canon should focus on that - the HV20/30 filmmaker crowd and make a camera that'll encourage us stalwarts to upgrade. ;) BTW, I shoot uncompressed and with a 35mm adapter with my HV20.

That new HF S10 feature-set looks impressive though! How about that sensor.. I'll be interested in seeing true resolution results and low-light tests. Again though, still not enough to encourage me to buy one.
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Old January 12th, 2009, 10:32 AM   #9
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Hi Pete,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer View Post
There is an implication in the press release that the 24p of the HV40 is the same as the XL and XH 24F, but I don't know that for a fact.
Its my understanding that it will now match the settings for the A1's 24F and won't need any transcoding. Fingers crossed. For efficiency I'd sell my 30's to get 40's just so I don't have to tie up a computer for over a day transcoding 4-6 tapes every week.
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Old January 12th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #10
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Ahh, I've been thinking of picking up an HV30 to use as a second camera with my XHA1, but then of course, Canon had to go and release the XHA1s. I have about $1100.00 in my "buy something fund" but it's sounding like I should wait for the HV40?

Or should I just save a bit longer and buy an XHA1s?

This is a big of a non-sequitur, but Anyone know why most sites sell the HV30 for $799 (and that price is the secret price they can't advertise that you can only see when you add to cart) but B&H has it listed at $599 with free shipping?
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Old January 13th, 2009, 06:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiah Rickert View Post
... should I just save a bit longer and buy an XHA1s?

This is a big of a non-sequitur, but Anyone know why most sites sell the HV30 for $799 (and that price is the secret price they can't advertise that you can only see when you add to cart) but B&H has it listed at $599 with free shipping?
I don't know if anyone can answer the first question for you. If you need any of the features the A1s provides, then I think you have your answer. If not, well...

As to your second question, Manufacturers and retailers have agreements that set minimum advertised prices. When the actual selling price is lower the only way let the buyer know is to reveal it in the shopping cart. Why B&H can advertise $599 is beyond me.
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Old January 17th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel View Post
Why B&H can advertise $599 is beyond me.
My guess is that everyone is allowed to publicly advertise at $599 (or currently back down to $579) but they leave the "click here to see price" to make people still feel as though they are getting a killer deal.

but who knows....maybe B & H just thinks they are cooler than everyone else.

I frankly don't mind it considering that I am quite possibly going to order an hv30 very soon
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Old March 17th, 2009, 03:56 PM   #13
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It would be great if the HDMI output could have an embedded 23.98 PsF signal. A discreet Pro-Res capture to an updated Intensity Pro would be an ideal workflow to get around the 4:2:0 compression and also not require a 3:2 removal.

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Old May 2nd, 2009, 05:48 AM   #14
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First HV40 PAL (25i) footage (vs. HV30):

Wolfgangs VideoBlog - Mai 09 (in german)
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Old May 20th, 2009, 05:40 PM   #15
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Now that the HV40 is due to release.

I am now rethinking my possible purchase of an HV30 when the price is going up, instead of going down like I had hoped. Although, I guess there will always be the dvinfo classifieds available to me in another 40 days or so. As for now, I figure this trend will probably continue to push new buyers, such as myself, to the HV40 as it's arrival creeps up on us. If I do fall victim to such a move, I do have one question regarding the features of the HV40, which is not so much what it has included, but what might have been taken away? The elder Thieda has been urging me to be weary of such possibilities, so I thought I might post it to see if anyone has seen any of the HV30's options removed from this new model?

Thanks, Justin
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