Question for folks shooting 24p w/HV20 or HV30 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 7th, 2010, 06:06 PM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
Question for folks shooting 24p w/HV20 or HV30

I'm considering collaborating with my brother, to write a software app that would automate proper removal of pulldown from 24p footage recorded by the HV20 or HV30 and captured as m2t files (making it a very simple task to perform).

Is this something that would be valuable to you? Would it be worth spending something like $30-$50 for?
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
The conceptual approach, as yet untested, should make it possible to yield a conversion with absolutely no image quality degradation from re-compression.
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2010, 09:09 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,414
Its called Cineform and it cost around $100.... someone beat you to it...
Ray Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2010, 09:49 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 689
No image degradation at all? That would be great.

On an Apple I do this process with a Compressor droplet and have also done tests with JES Deinterlacer. Both degrade the image but JES produces a better result, but because of JES's clunky interface I use Compressor more often.

The comparison shot is Compressor on the left and JES on the right at 400%. You can see how chunky the Compressor conversion is compared to JES. Both are noticeably softer than the original. (The next time I need to do this process I'll grab stills of the original too.)


http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1262922438
Attached Thumbnails
Question for folks shooting 24p w/HV20 or HV30-picture-1.png  
__________________
WeddingFilms.com>>
Joel Peregrine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 12:06 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bell View Post
Its called Cineform and it cost around $100.... someone beat you to it...
Cineform can remove the pulldown*, but you are limited to output being encoded as an AVI (Windows) with Cineform's codec (unless something changed recently). What I'm talking about is removing pulldown without any image quality degradation, and output being an MPEG-2 encoded video stream (in an MPEG transport stream container - an mts file, just like the captured source file), which is much smaller than a Cineform encoded file (and Cineform's encoding uses a lossy compression scheme, although the result is generally accepted as being visually lossless). Also, Cineform costs more than twice as much as what I would expect to price our product at, should we proceed to develop it.

*I'm not sure if Cineform's pulldown removal is always done correctly though. There are no pulldown sequence flags encoded in the 24p recordings produced by the HV20 or HV30, so detection of the proper sequence is not entirely straight forward.
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
Obviously, a tool, like the one we are considering developing, would be of little use to folks who capture with Cineform's product, directly to a file encoded with Cineform's codec, using that for editing (or whatever), while having no use for a file on their computer containing the original source.

Where it could be potentially quite useful, is for folks who want to drop HV20/HV30 24p source footage directly on their NLE's timeline for editing (editing HDV natively) or for archiving the original source footage, but with pulldown removed (once and for all - no need to ever do it again at some point in the future).
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 12:50 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 689
Would it be similar to a "re-wrapping" like clipwrap?

ClipWrap
__________________
WeddingFilms.com>>
Joel Peregrine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
Sorry, I'm not familiar with clipwrap. Is that Mac software? (I've barely even touched a Mac in over 2 decades now.)
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 01:25 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
Another way to look at it is, we are essentially considering creating a utility to convert the 24p footage (encoded into a 60i HDV standard compliant stream) from an HV20/HV30 into what you get from an XH-A1 when shooting 24F, as a practical matter, except 4:2:0 chroma sampling would still be the same as with interlaced material. (To convert the chroma sampling into the same 4:2:0 sampling as used with 24F progressive encoding, would necessitate image quality degradation from both conversion and from re-compression, with no actual benefit realized.)
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 02:46 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert M Wright View Post
Sorry, I'm not familiar with clipwrap. Is that Mac software?
Yes.

Clipwrap.com:
Easily rewrap m2t, mts, and m2ts files into QuickTime movies
Faster than transcoding
No generation loss

So this will be Windows only?
__________________
WeddingFilms.com>>
Joel Peregrine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 09:10 AM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cordoba, Argentina
Posts: 5
Currently nobody whants to transcode...

The really ussefull app is one capable of writing in-situ M2T files the pulldown flags that they are missing (detecting it on each file). So this make possible to a ENG to automaticaly interpret the file i guess...
or reinterpreting at 24PulldownAdvanced...

No transcoding, no HD space, no color conversions, no more codecs = NATIVE
Ulises Rodriguez Pomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
There's a number of ways to go about pulldown removal with 24p footage from the HV20/HV30 (both before and after editing). (Personally, I currently use VirtualDub.) I don't know of any utility that will do it entirely automatically (and also reliably get it right) and simply (in essence) convert the source footage to what amounts to the natively progressive 24F MPEG-2 you get out of an XH-A1, not transcoding with some other codec, and without degrading image quality (and not altering audio either).
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:46 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network