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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
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Old May 21st, 2010, 03:48 PM   #1
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HF S200 Shooting settings and CS5 Question

I’m pretty new in video editing, please be patient with me if I’m asking some obvious questions.
In my defense I did search this forum and try to find answers for my question, but I wasn’t successful.

Until recently I had Sonny camcorder that used mini DV tapes (I guess I recorded in SD); I edited my videos on CS4 premiere, encore and so far had an excellent results.

However I recently bought CANON VIXIA HF S200.

I understand that this is HD format ( AVCHD) and that I need to take a different approach to get good results.

Essentially what I want to do is to burn DVD’s as right now. I will keep my raw material and sometime in the near future I will be burning blu-ray’s.

Just to add I recently bought Canon T2I, which videos I will most likely incorporate in my videos.

I’m really struggling to decide in what setting to shoot my videos 60i, 30p …
Which setting is the true 24p? We have two setting on our cameras (PF24 or 24F), I’m really confused with this one.

I download trial of CS5, and I don’t really know which workflow to follow to get best results.
I did some trials but they didn’t turn out to be good at all.

I even tried to convert my videos to SD on camera. When I moved them on my PC, Premiere pro didn’t recognize them.

Any help is really appreciated.

Last edited by Besim Hasani; May 21st, 2010 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Format
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Old June 27th, 2010, 01:16 AM   #2
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Hi Besim,

The camera I use is a Canon HF10 and a friend uses a FH200 neither of us have tried the CS5 but we did try the CS4, it didn't do too badly with the HF10 at 18Mbps, just the occasional miss place frame at the edit points, but with the HF200 at 24Mbps it was terrible on moving subjects.

Both of us have gone to the Corel Pro X3 and saved a bomb and it works very well. as for setting up your camera I would stick with 60i if I was using it for TV or conversion to DVD as long as you remember AVCHD is upper field first so make your DVD upper field first, I don't know anything about 24P only to say I did do a conversion from 24P to 25P PAL in CS4 by using "interpret footage" and it worked fine, something I couldn't do in Corel Pro X3 without introducing a hesitation in pans and moving subjects.

I haven't bothered with Blue-ray I use a WD TV HD Media player, it plays 1920X1080i through hdmi and works well without the hassles of making disks and storing them.

Bryan
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Old June 27th, 2010, 04:42 AM   #3
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My answer would be to try the trial download of Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 10 (not 9) which will handle almost every video file that you throw at it.
I edit HDV from a Sony Z1 and AVCHD from Canon HFS100 on the same timeline with no problems, It will even burn to Bluray - (if you have the correct burner) - however, like Bryan, I use the WD Media Player to view videos on my TV.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 07:48 AM   #4
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Weird. I've got an HF200. Shoot in MXP mode (24 Mbps), 1920 x 1080, 30p. Shove the SDHC card into my laptop and xfer the files to a hard drive. Import the files into Premiere Pro CS5. Edits just fine. No transcoding needed.

Granted, the laptop is new. Using i7-930 chip, 6GB memory. Win7 64 bit, because CS5 requires a 64 bit OS.

I've got no complaints. CS5 is mostly just a faster version of CS4 for me, but I'm barely scratching the surface of what it can do. At least not yet.

Last edited by Bruce Watson; June 27th, 2010 at 09:23 AM.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 09:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Besim Hasani View Post
Essentially what I want to do is to burn DVDís as right now. I will keep my raw material and sometime in the near future I will be burning blu-rayís.
.
.
.
Iím really struggling to decide in what setting to shoot my videos 60i, 30p Ö
Which setting is the true 24p? We have two setting on our cameras (PF24 or 24F), Iím really confused with this one.
Aren't we all. Just so you'll know, blu-ray supports 1080/60i, 1080/24p, 720/60p, and 720/24p. It doesn't appear to have a 30fps frame rate of any kind. Sad and stupid, but evidently true. DVD video seems to be at 480/30i.

I'm just sayin' that the frame rates for BD and DVD aren't exactly compatible. Conversions can be made, but at a price. It might make the most sense to capture at 60i because the down conversion to DVD would be more straightforward. IDK. Clearly YMMV.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
Weird. I've got an HF200. Shoot in MXP mode (24 Mbps), 1920 x 1080, 30p. Shove the SDHC card into my laptop and xfer the files to a hard drive. Import the files into Premiere Pro CS5. Edits just fine. No transcoding needed.

Granted, the laptop is new. Using i7-930 chip, 6GB memory. Win7 64 bit, because CS5 requires a 64 bit OS.

I've got no complaints. CS5 is mostly just a faster version of CS4 for me, but I'm barely scratching the surface of what it can do. At least not yet.
Hi Bruce, It's interesting that you are using 30P and not having problems, we're in New Zealand so we use PAL 25fps and I've always stuck with interlaced, I will have tell my friend with the HF200 what you are doing he has an i7 and is using Windows 7 but only the 32 bit version.

Up until recently I had always used Premiere going back to version 4.2 in 1997 and later 6.5 so was very disappointed with the results I got with the occasional miss-placed frames with CS4 but otherwise no problems
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Old September 18th, 2010, 03:13 AM   #7
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Premiere Pro trials don't support HD as far as I know.
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Old September 18th, 2010, 05:13 PM   #8
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As far as I remember you're right we could only test the Premiere program in SD but have a professional editor who helps us out with test's etc, maybe on the test's we did the program hadn't all the latest patches, but I wasn't prepared to pay out $1700 just on the off chance, it's maybe why the professionals use programs like Cineform to convert the AVCHD.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 01:37 AM   #9
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Conversions, editing etc.

If the target medium is SD (DVD), I would never shoot interlaced. Conversion from HD to SD is not all that simple, since the number of lines doesn't divide by a whole number (1080 vs. 480 in NTSC, or 576 in PAL). Interlaced footage is very problematic for downsampling. Progressive scales much better.

As for frame rates on Canons, all models before HF-S200 encoded the various frame rates inside a 60i stream (for US models, or 50i for EU and other formerly PAL markets). The cameras are capable of capturing 24p or 30p (25p on non-US models), but the stream is interlaced, and in case of 24p, telecine pulldown is inserted to fill 60 interlaced fields. On HF-S200, there is an additional option of 24PF, which actually both captures, AND encodes 24 true, progressive frames in a 24p stream inside an AVCHD container.

Windows software, such as Premiere (CS5), Vegas, Pinnacle Studio and others, are capable of editing files in AVCHD container directly, and the performance directly depends on the computer's muscle.

One other minor thing, about supported frame rates. The info posted earlier is neither complete, nor quite correct. The officially supported frame rates by DVD and Blu-ray standards are as follows:

DVD:

50i (in PAL regions)
60i (more accurately, 59.94i, in NTSC regions)

Blu-Ray

24p
50p (only at 720p size)
50i (all resolutions)
60p (again, more accurately, 59.94, also, only at 720p size)
60i (59.94i, all resolutions)

One other thing; DVD standard allows for insertion of pulldown flags into the interlaced stream, so that DVD player that is capable of interpreting can automatically deinterlace the content and deliver it to the progressive display.

So, if you live in a region that uses NTSC for the standard-def content, you should shoot either 24p or 30p. Editing progressive footage is easy in all NLEs, as is downsampling into SD. Your DVD authoring software will automatically take care of encoding your progressive material into a 60i MPEG-2 stream, and will likely also be able to insert those pull-down flags (if your original stuff was shot in 24p).

If you live in the PAL region, the choice is simple. If your HF-S200 is a local model, you shoot at 25p. If it is a 'grey market' US (or Japanese) model, you shoot 24p. Editing, downsampling and authoring is the same as for NTSC. The nice thing about PAL DVD players is that they are all capable of playing back NTSC frame rates without issues (which is not the case with NTSC players and the PAL frame rate).
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Old September 19th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #10
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That would fit in with what I have been doing lately, I like the smooth flow of interlaced but find I get better results if I de-interlace and produce a progressive scan for DVD, I think you have a slight advantage with NTSC at 30P over 25P were you can see a flicker in pans or fast movement, it's like watching the old films.

My method now is to produce the highest quality AVCHD 1920x1080i for viewing through the WD media player and if I need a DVD I use the Kayote Soft free video converter, it does an excellent job of making a mpeg2 for authoring to DVD.
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