Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D

Jeff Harper · December 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM

You could email it to jeff at jeff harper video dot com if you want.

I'm not exaggerating about the lack of grain on my XA10. It's not there. It is pure black where it's dark, and it blows me away everytime I use it at a reception. On the other hand, it cannot hold up to my GH2s in low light, so matching footage is tough, and in a very dark hall I only run the XA10 for audio purposes, as it's audio circuitry is superb.

My settings more often than not are auto settings, and I set only the white balance and the gain limiter set to about 20db.

I've not use the other cam you have.

Steve Nunez · December 14th, 2011, 05:39 PM

So are we 100% sure the sensors are not the same- I was under the impression the G10 and XA10 had same sensor (as well as the entire lineup of the M400/M40/M41 series)- ?

Maurice Covington · December 14th, 2011, 06:29 PM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the M400/M40/M41 series definitely doesn't have the same sensor as the XA10. I will contact Canon to confirm this but I'm pretty sure that they don't. That being said, I am not sure about the HF-G10 and the XA-10.

Does anyone know?

Maurice Covington · December 14th, 2011, 06:58 PM

Okay, Here is the skinny. I just got off the telephone with Canon and it appears that the M400/M40/M41 series have totally different sensor from the HF-G10 and the XA-10. The senors are smaller in size and inferior to the aforementioned cameras.

The HF-G10 has a larger sensor that the M400/M40/M41 series but is NOT the same sensor as found in the XA-10. This was a surprise to me. The sensor in the XA-10 is larger but I was told that while the sensor is slightly larger in the XA-10, the price differential is largely due to the number of features that you get on the XA-10 that are no present on the HF-G10.

I was also told that the sensor that is on the XF100 is not the same as the one on the XA-10. Sure they both have a single chip but not the same single chip. The chip in the XF100 is even larger. The rep actually suggested that for someone like me who has the HF-S20, XHA1, and XHA1s, the most logical upgrade is to go to the XF100 or the XF300. This move would be justified by the price differential as opposed to the less expensive models.

I looks like I'm taking the HF-G10 back and I'm gonna upgrade to the XF100 or XF300 which is what I wanted anyway. I just couldn't wait to get a new model so I sacrificed.

Jeff Harper · December 14th, 2011, 07:08 PM

Wow, Maurice, thanks, that is outstanding information.

Steve Nunez · December 14th, 2011, 08:37 PM

Thank you for finding and posting this info, very good posting, informative.

Don Palomaki · December 15th, 2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

I was also told that the sensor that is on the XF100 is not the same as the one on the XA-10. Sure they
both have a single chip but not the same single chip. The chip in the XF100 is even larger.

Interesting given that if we read the lens and sensor spec in the user manuals, they appear to be the same for the G10, XA10 and XF10. All three claim the DIGIC DV III DSP on the CANONDV web site information.

The same focal length range and same 35mm equivalent field of view implies the same active sensor size. And all three list the same pixel count (2,070,000 effective).

My impressionis that the main difference appears to be the CODEC/format used for the image, and of course camcorder features.

Jeff Harper · December 15th, 2011, 08:33 AM

Don, you are right to question that information, and I wondered if the rep knew what he was talking about or not. You never know. A rep can be a know-it-all who knows little and just makes stuff up as he goes along, or they can be experts who know the gear inside and out. It depends on the company and their training, and I have no idea of what the situation is with Canon folks.

I'm sure Marice felt comfortable and confident with the rep, and until we know differently, it is good to know that what he reported is a possiblity. On the surface it makes sense, given the disparity in the images from cam to cam, but so do other scenarios.

Maurice Covington · December 15th, 2011, 04:02 PM

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I do agree that some of the Canon representatives are only as good as the information in front of them. Nikon is even worse. That being said, I was very disappointed at what the rep told me, to say the least. According to the rep, the sensors are all different sizes which doesn't make sense considering that the XA10 and the HF-G10 are the same size. I to have read the specs but if you look closely, the wording is slightly different as it relates to the sensor. Maybe, i'll call again.

Jeff Harper · December 15th, 2011, 04:32 PM

That is a good idea Maurice, sometimes a second call, asking to verify previous info given to you will cause a rep to double check it to be sure. We'll be interested, to say the least, if you do follow up.

Mark Goodsell · December 15th, 2011, 06:42 PM

If you are prepared to consider buying the HF105, you may try to test drive a Panasonic AC130 or AC160 just to compare. It's a 3-ring camera. Or maybe, test out a Canon DSLR. It might be exactly what you are looking for, who knows?

I always thought the G10 and XA10 had the same sensor too.

Maurice Covington · December 15th, 2011, 07:02 PM

What is the HF-105

Jeff Harper · December 15th, 2011, 10:05 PM

Right on Mark. I recommended in another thread the same thing as you, that Maurice check out the same Panasonics. Better low light, or so I've heard, even if only marginally, and a 22x zoom, very nice cameras.

Mark Goodsell · December 15th, 2011, 11:03 PM

Whoops: XF100 (105 is another model)..

Andreas Schmidt · December 19th, 2011, 01:47 PM

Funny thing is - I had both the XA10 and the Canon 60D. I sold the 60D in between and got the Sony A65 but they are in principle very comparable (the 60D and the A65, with the A65 being much better)

The reason is that those are very different cameras for very different purposes. The XA10 (more or less the same then the HF-G10, but with the XLR inputs) is a real video camera with a 1/3" chip where as the 60D is more a large sensor cam.

The operating modes are very different, the XA10 can easily used handheld, has a great autofocus, really good audio. The 60D can have a small DOF. Autofocus or focus in general is better not used during shooting or if required only with additional proper gear. Btw - the Sony A65 autofocus does work ok (not great, but ok) while shooting.

Regarding the XF100 - for that price you can have both - the XA10 and the Canon 60D and I think the same goes for Panasonic AC130 or AC160.

December 14th, 2011, 03:16 PM	#16
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D You could email it to jeff at jeff harper video dot com if you want. I'm not exaggerating about the lack of grain on my XA10. It's not there. It is pure black where it's dark, and it blows me away everytime I use it at a reception. On the other hand, it cannot hold up to my GH2s in low light, so matching footage is tough, and in a very dark hall I only run the XA10 for audio purposes, as it's audio circuitry is superb. My settings more often than not are auto settings, and I set only the white balance and the gain limiter set to about 20db. I've not use the other cam you have.

December 14th, 2011, 05:39 PM	#17
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D So are we 100% sure the sensors are not the same- I was under the impression the G10 and XA10 had same sensor (as well as the entire lineup of the M400/M40/M41 series)- ? __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

December 14th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#18
Maurice Covington Major Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Plainfield, Illinois Posts: 236	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the M400/M40/M41 series definitely doesn't have the same sensor as the XA10. I will contact Canon to confirm this but I'm pretty sure that they don't. That being said, I am not sure about the HF-G10 and the XA-10. Does anyone know?

December 14th, 2011, 06:58 PM	#19
Maurice Covington Major Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Plainfield, Illinois Posts: 236	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Okay, Here is the skinny. I just got off the telephone with Canon and it appears that the M400/M40/M41 series have totally different sensor from the HF-G10 and the XA-10. The senors are smaller in size and inferior to the aforementioned cameras. The HF-G10 has a larger sensor that the M400/M40/M41 series but is NOT the same sensor as found in the XA-10. This was a surprise to me. The sensor in the XA-10 is larger but I was told that while the sensor is slightly larger in the XA-10, the price differential is largely due to the number of features that you get on the XA-10 that are no present on the HF-G10. I was also told that the sensor that is on the XF100 is not the same as the one on the XA-10. Sure they both have a single chip but not the same single chip. The chip in the XF100 is even larger. The rep actually suggested that for someone like me who has the HF-S20, XHA1, and XHA1s, the most logical upgrade is to go to the XF100 or the XF300. This move would be justified by the price differential as opposed to the less expensive models. I looks like I'm taking the HF-G10 back and I'm gonna upgrade to the XF100 or XF300 which is what I wanted anyway. I just couldn't wait to get a new model so I sacrificed.

December 14th, 2011, 07:08 PM	#20
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Wow, Maurice, thanks, that is outstanding information.

December 14th, 2011, 08:37 PM	#21
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Thank you for finding and posting this info, very good posting, informative. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

December 15th, 2011, 08:33 AM	#23
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Don, you are right to question that information, and I wondered if the rep knew what he was talking about or not. You never know. A rep can be a know-it-all who knows little and just makes stuff up as he goes along, or they can be experts who know the gear inside and out. It depends on the company and their training, and I have no idea of what the situation is with Canon folks. I'm sure Marice felt comfortable and confident with the rep, and until we know differently, it is good to know that what he reported is a possiblity. On the surface it makes sense, given the disparity in the images from cam to cam, but so do other scenarios.

December 15th, 2011, 04:02 PM	#24
Maurice Covington Major Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Plainfield, Illinois Posts: 236	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Thanks for the vote of confidence. I do agree that some of the Canon representatives are only as good as the information in front of them. Nikon is even worse. That being said, I was very disappointed at what the rep told me, to say the least. According to the rep, the sensors are all different sizes which doesn't make sense considering that the XA10 and the HF-G10 are the same size. I to have read the specs but if you look closely, the wording is slightly different as it relates to the sensor. Maybe, i'll call again.

December 15th, 2011, 04:32 PM	#25
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D That is a good idea Maurice, sometimes a second call, asking to verify previous info given to you will cause a rep to double check it to be sure. We'll be interested, to say the least, if you do follow up.

December 15th, 2011, 06:42 PM	#26
Mark Goodsell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: WI Posts: 367	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D If you are prepared to consider buying the HF105, you may try to test drive a Panasonic AC130 or AC160 just to compare. It's a 3-ring camera. Or maybe, test out a Canon DSLR. It might be exactly what you are looking for, who knows? I always thought the G10 and XA10 had the same sensor too. __________________ Mark Goodsell

December 15th, 2011, 07:02 PM	#27
Maurice Covington Major Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Plainfield, Illinois Posts: 236	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D What is the HF-105

December 15th, 2011, 10:05 PM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Right on Mark. I recommended in another thread the same thing as you, that Maurice check out the same Panasonics. Better low light, or so I've heard, even if only marginally, and a 22x zoom, very nice cameras.

December 15th, 2011, 11:03 PM	#29
Mark Goodsell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: WI Posts: 367	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Whoops: XF100 (105 is another model).. __________________ Mark Goodsell

December 19th, 2011, 01:47 PM	#30
Andreas Schmidt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Nuremberg, Germany Posts: 43	Re: Is The HF-G10 vs. Canon 60D Funny thing is - I had both the XA10 and the Canon 60D. I sold the 60D in between and got the Sony A65 but they are in principle very comparable (the 60D and the A65, with the A65 being much better) The reason is that those are very different cameras for very different purposes. The XA10 (more or less the same then the HF-G10, but with the XLR inputs) is a real video camera with a 1/3" chip where as the 60D is more a large sensor cam. The operating modes are very different, the XA10 can easily used handheld, has a great autofocus, really good audio. The 60D can have a small DOF. Autofocus or focus in general is better not used during shooting or if required only with additional proper gear. Btw - the Sony A65 autofocus does work ok (not great, but ok) while shooting. Regarding the XF100 - for that price you can have both - the XA10 and the Canon 60D and I think the same goes for Panasonic AC130 or AC160.

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