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Old August 19th, 2014, 09:56 AM   #1
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HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

I acquired my Canon HF-G10 only a few months back and until now have been using one of these inexpensive Mini-to-Standard Cold Shoe adapters for mounting an external microphone on-the-go.

Mini HOT Shoe Adapter Canon Vixia HF10 HF11 HF100 HF20 HF200 HG10 HG20 HF S10 | eBay

Here's the set-up with my old Sony EMC-MS908c; bought it with my first Sony DV camcorder over 12 years ago and it's still a great little microphone. It came with a short extension bracket-cum-dampener (of sorts) which can be used to bring the mic further forward on the HF-G10.





Well, the adapter is OK, I guess for the price. In it's favor, it doesn't impinge on the camcorder zoom control and so allows normal access to that. It is a bit fiddly to insert and relies on a tiny stud on the right side to lock in place. And removing the adapter requires fumbling for a little lever to lift the stud.



What I really don't like though, is that the front portion of the adapter foot fits in over the 'hot' contacts and I think depresses them in order to do so. Since the adapter does rock a little in the shoe, I can see potential for damaging the contacts - a consideration if I ever came to sell the HF-G10 or use a Canon 'hot' accessory. Also, the adapter is entirely plastic construction and I don't think it would take a lot to snap the stem.

There's this pricier adapter (Pearstone CSA-II) that has a screw-down arrangement, but I'd have the same concern about the shoe touching the 'hot' contacts (difficult to tell from the product image) and I'm not sure I'd want that much elevation:

Pearstone CSA-II Universal Shoe Adapter for Canon CSA-II B&H


So, I'm thinking about one of these all-metal adapters from DM Accessories (CMS-FLAT v2):

DM-Accessories ? CMS-FLAT v2 - Canon Mini Accessory Shoe to Universal Shoe Adapter

Relatively pricey (and more so through Canadian retailers), but what I like is that the fork-like foot doesn't come near the 'hot' contacts and looks to be fairly low profile. Looking at the image however, I'm not sure if the tightening ring would in any way obstruct the zoom control. Also, on the HF-G10 (and I assume HF-G20) there is a lip between the mini shoe plate and the zoom control, and I wonder if this presents any issue for fully tightening the ring down.

Any HF-G10/20 owners out there using this adapter who could comment? I'd include HF-G30 owners too, except that, being blessed with that well positioned standard cold shoe, I can't imagine any would be grappling with this issue.

BTW - looking at the above photos of my existing set-up, the observant might note that I have an HF-G20 type lens hood on my HF-G10, with the lever-controlled 'lens guard' in replace of the regular stock hood with fiddly lens cap. I contacted Canon Canada who confirmed that the hoods have exactly the same fit and was delighted to find that the HF-G20 hood was available as a part and relatively inexpensive - as I recall, around 24 $CAD (32 $CAD including tax/courier). I expected it to be much more. It arrived the next day, and fits and works perfectly. Best 'accessory' purchase I've made to date.

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 19th, 2014 at 11:10 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:22 AM   #2
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

I hate to complain, but your photos are a bit big Brian!

Dave
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:42 AM   #3
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Crikey you're right. I'd uploaded the full res images. Now down-sized.

BTW - I do also have one of these folding 'L' brackets, that was useful when mounting a microphone and video light on previous camcorders I've owned (all of which had a standard cold shoe).

Kaiser Folding Metal "L" Flash Bracket 201100 B&H


But, using on the left side (at maximum extension) of the HF-G10 there is not quite enough clearance to open and close the relatively large LCD screen, and mounting on the right side makes accessing the controls whilst holding the grip a bit difficult.

DM Accessories have a wrap-around bracket that allows standard shoe accessories to be forward mounted, with room for camcorder to be held by the hand-grip and operated in the normal way.

DM-Accessories ? Wrap Around Mount 36

Neat idea, but unfortunately the largest model would be just too small for the HF-G10/20, taking into account the lens hood.

Next step up, of course, would be a larger bracket/frame support, like:

http://www.cameragrip.co.uk/acatalog...teadyshot.html
http://www.cameragrip.co.uk/acatalog...e_support.html

or a "Cam-Caddie" like support.

But then it it starts getting bulky/cumbersome. Fine for staged shoots, going between tripod and handheld, but for video on-the-go, I really need lean arrangement that can be easily contained in a camcorder bag and quickly assembled/disassembled.

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 19th, 2014 at 06:25 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #4
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Just to clarify matters, I learn that the first version of the (DM Accessories) CMS-FLAT adapter was designed for the earlier Canon models (up to the HF-20/200 series) where the Advanced Mini Shoe was located (like the HF-G10/20) at the back end of the camcorder. This first version had a smaller tightening ring. On the HF-SXXX series models the Mini Shoe was placed further forward on the camcorder body in a recessed compartment. Apparently, this presented issues for attaching the CMS-FLAT adapter, which had to be part disassembled to access the tightening ring and then re-assembled. That's why the CMS-FLAT v2 adapter was developed.

Whether the first version of the CMS-FLAT (now discontinued) would have fitted on the HF-G10/20 Mini Shoe, I'm not sure. The HF-G10 is the first Canon model with a Mini Shoe that I've owned. Looking at images of the HF-20/200 models, I suspect it would have. What I need to know though is whether the available CMS-FLAT v2 adapter, with larger tightening ring, definitely fits.

Anyone ??
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Old August 20th, 2014, 02:41 AM   #5
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Hi Bryan,

I like the Canon mini hot shoe, but wherever they put it it will cause someone a problem. On the HF S100 it was fairly central, but fitting my DM-100 mike with a Windcutter Stormchaser on, I had hairs showing in the top of the frame at the wider angles of zoom. Windcutter re-designed it to my specifcation and cured it.

On the HF G30 it is right at the back and, with the DM-100 fitted, my forehead hits it if I tilt the EVF up, it would also hit it without the Stormchaser on. It is much more convenient to use the DM-100 most of the time than my SVM, so I put up with it.

I have a Custom Brackets Digital-T bracket I bought for my DSLR, plenty of room to open the LCD screen, but I wasn't particularly fond of it and hardly used it
Custom Brackets CB Digital-T Flash Rotating Camera CB-DIGITAL-T
.

You ought to be able to find something suitable here Bracket 1 - Video Camera & DSLR Brackets Mount Microphone Receivers & Accessories. I used their stuff with my HF S100 when I wanted to use the camera on a tripod and use LANC controller adaptor, which fits in the mini hot shoe, along with my Rode SVM which I mounted on the bracket.

Dave
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Old August 20th, 2014, 09:16 AM   #6
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Hi Bryan

I have two of the HF200's and only one DM-100 so I have been considering how to do this too, with my Rode Video Mic. I had been thinking of this:

DiffCage Cinema Rig. Pro Mounting Solution - DiffCase iPhone Cases & Accessories For Mobile Photography | PhoGo Case

but unfortunately, it seems I waited as it is currently, perhaps permanently sold out. I like the look of the wrap around mount as an alternative. The long hot shoe mount would probably allow mic and light to be mounted.

Cheers

Tim
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Old August 20th, 2014, 10:28 AM   #7
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Thanks Dave.

Actually, one of the reasons I'm contemplating the options for mounting an external microphone is for use with a Stormchaser fur that I've purchased to combat wind noise. Much of the (otherwise excellent) video footage from a recent trip to the UK, recorded with the built-in mic, was blighted with wind rumble. I didn't include the fur in those two images of my current set-up, but both of those microphone attachment configurations (with and without forward extension bracket) work fine with it. That said, the Sony EMC-MS908c does easily pick-up handling noise, so it's a bit of a trade-off - one factor in favor of mounting on a bracket, I guess.

Of course, I have considered whether it would be worth biting the bullet and going for a DM-100 - but, in addition to price, I wondered too whether there would be issues with a long-haired fur like the Stormchaser, as you have found. I think the DM-100 comes with it's own fur windjammer doesn't it, but how well it performs in strong winds, I'm not sure. Presumably it fits over the stock foam windscreen, or does it have a foam liner?

I haven't discounted the possibility of using a "L", "T" or "U" type-bracket mount, but would want it to be folding and quick to assemble/dissemble. I'd also like the option to use it with the Manfrotto 577 quick release combo that I have:

Manfrotto 577 Rapid Connect Adapter with Sliding Mounting 577


As such, the distance from the fixing screw hole (or maximum extension, if a slot) to the upright portion (accounting for any handle) needs to be, at minimum, 6" to provide adequate clearance for the opened LCD screen.

Invariably, the product specifications for these brackets only state the total dimensions and not the working distances. There is also a (pricier) folding version of that CB Digital-T bracket you mention:

CB Folding-T - Camera Flash Brackets - Products - Custom Brackets

Stated to be 8" wide, when opened out. And also folding 'S' and 'L' brackets, both stated to be 7" wide:

CB Folding-S - Camera Flash Brackets - Products - Custom Brackets
CB Folding-SB - HD Video Supports - Products - Custom Brackets

I emailed them a few weeks back requesting confirmation of the screw-hole to upright clearances but received no reply. If you still have the CB-Digital T, any chance you could measure it?

I'd looked at the Bracket 1 products also. They state the Bracket 1 Micro to be compatible with the XA10 (and so presumably HF-G10)

Bracket 1 micro - Video Camera & DSLR Brackets Mount Microphone Receivers & Accessories

Yet the stated width is just 5.5", which is less than the Kaiser 'L' bracket I have. Presumably, that assumes the bracket would be used with the LCD screen closed.

Something like the Bracket 1 Mini 2 would be beyond my budget:

Bracket 1 mini2 - Video Camera & DSLR Brackets Mount Microphone Receivers & Accessories

Still, if there are other, reasonably priced, folding brackets out there that are wide enough, I'd be interested to know.

Cheers.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 11:01 AM   #8
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lewis View Post
Hi Bryan

I have two of the HF200's and only one DM-100 so I have been considering how to do this too, with my Rode Video Mic. I had been thinking of this:

DiffCage Cinema Rig. Pro Mounting Solution - DiffCase iPhone Cases & Accessories For Mobile Photography | PhoGo Case

but unfortunately, it seems I waited as it is currently, perhaps permanently sold out. I like the look of the wrap around mount as an alternative. The long hot shoe mount would probably allow mic and light to be mounted.
Thanks Tim. That DiffCage looks to be a cool accessory for it's stated purpose, but they don't give any dimensions and looking at the images I'm certain it wouldn't fit with the HF-G10.

What might be worth looking at for your HF-200 though is that DM Accessories Wrap Around bracket I mentioned above:

DM-Accessories ? Wrap Around Mount 36

As for the CMS-FLAT v2 mini-shoe adapter; I emailed DM Accessories with images of the mini shoe placement on the HF-G10. They think it will work fine, even with the lip between the mini-shoe and zoom control, and would accept a return if it doesn't. So I might give it a try. They also confirmed that a similar adapter to the CMS-Flat v2 being sold on EBay out of China is a copy of their design:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400745910595?...84.m1423.l2649

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 20th, 2014 at 11:39 AM.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #9
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Bryan,

The DM-100 does come with a furry wind muff, it is reasonably effective but the Stormchaser is better. The problem with hair in the frame was only on the HF S100 with the forward shoe, because it poked out forward of the lens. There is no foam with the supplied deadcat, Windcutter are the only company that do a fur and foam set for it. I tested mine out of the window of a Land Rover doing 60 kph and there was no wind rumble.

The SVM is the better mike, but the DM-100 is neater and much easier to set up and use, also it is handy to be able to switch it to shotgun mode (mono) when necessary. As it is camera powered, it's one less battery to worry about when on a trip and I find it a big improvement over the built-in mikes.

I was impressed with Windcutter. When I contacted them and told them the Stormchaser was causing problems, they asked me to send it back and they made a new one to my measurements. When it arrived there was still a small problem, so it went back again. This time when they sent it back, problems solved, it was with a letter thanking me for my assistance in the re-design and they had credited me with the full purchase price!

Yes, I do still have the Custom Bracket but no, sorry, I can't measure it. We are having some fairly major work done on the house and it has been put away somewhere where I can't find it.

I tried my Bracket 1 Mini 2 assembly on the HF G30 today for the first time, I'd almost forgotten about it. It works well, I'll have to see if I can fit it into my gear bag.

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Old August 20th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #10
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Thanks Dave. Actually I'm just waiting on a replacement Stormchaser for my EMC-908c. First one they sent was clearly designed to fit over the bare microphone only, so they are sending another to fit over the stock foam windscreen.

I also recently tested the stick-on Rycote Micro-Windjammer fur pads over the built-in mics on my HF-G10 and they actually work quite well in mild to moderate minds. Like you, to get some notion of "controlled" comparative performance, I made a few runs up and down the road (on a relatively still day) with the camcorder out of the window. With the uncovered mics (in auto mode), the wind-rumble kicked in as soon as moved off. With the fur pads on, I got up to 25 kmph before the rumble became noticeable, and I could hear my own voice more clearly from inside the car. I think the critical point is probably where the wind-force parts the fur fibres to expose and penetrate the fur backing.

Only thing is that the Rycote fur pads and stickies are really designed for DSLR microphones and the like, and to fit on that fairly narrow strip on the HF-G10/20 (same on HF-G30, I think) where the stereo mics are located, they have to be trimmed down and a wider opening made in the stickie to go round the mics capsules. A bit finicky to say the least.

I had some dialogue with Rycote about the prospect of custom pads and stickies for the Canon HF-GXX series. They indicated that they will more likely look at a modified version of their strap-on 'Gust Buster', which has a foam liner and silicone beaded trims to promote a good seal.

Windcutter also do a stick-on specifically to fit the HF-G10 mics, but it is intended to be left on, or, if removed, considered single use. The Rycote Micro WJ's come in a pack of 6 re-usable fur pads and 30 stickies. In practice though, I wouldn't really say the fur pads are re-usable, as the adhesive used is fairly strong and messes up the backing on the fur when it is peeled off. Still you at least get three double-shots per pack.

I'm not sure if Windcutter use the same 'Stormchaser' fur material on their stick-on as their regular wind-jammers. On the Rycote fur pads the backing weave is a bit more open and softer by comparison.

No bother about measuring the Custom Bracket. I've ordered one of the CMS-FLAT v2 adapters and will see how that goes for now.

Cheers.

Bryan

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 21st, 2014 at 12:28 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 09:36 AM   #11
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Hi Bryan

I wasn't sure whether the Diffcase bracket I mentioned would be big enough got the G10, but it has heaps of room for the HF-200.

The DM-100 fluffy cover is really about and much use as an ash tray on a motorbike. I found it totally inadequate. I bought a couple of 5" microphone foam covers and cut and joined them together. I then sewed up a new fluffy cover from some material I have for those and it works much better.

I agree that the DM-100 is an easy to use and versatile microphone and I would have two if I could, but the fact is I already have the Røde, so I need a mount for it with the camera. The DM Accessories on looks like it might be the neatest option. Thanks for the heads up!

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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:10 AM   #12
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lewis View Post
Hi Bryan
I wasn't sure whether the Diffcase bracket I mentioned would be big enough got the G10, but it has heaps of room for the HF-200.
Well, that was just my impression form the images. An iPhone 5S, is what, just shy of 5" long. Looks like that leaves around 2" spare, so maybe 7" total (inside) width. Judging from the position of that widest screw mount hole (around 1" in), I'd say the maximum working distance from attachment hole to the vertical portion must be around 6". On second thoughts, it might be worth looking at. Could maybe also use it rear-mounted, with the top bar coming over the back of the camcorder. I'll contact them to see if I can get the exact measurements and check future availability. I think I'd want to stick a piece of rubber strip on that metal-bare support bar though, for cushioning/grip - same goes for the DM Accessories wrap-around bracket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lewis View Post
I agree that the DM-100 is an easy to use and versatile microphone and I would have two if I could, but the fact is I already have the Røde, so I need a mount for it with the camera.
Yes, a DM-100 would be nice to have, primarily for the convenience, but I don't really have that luxury just now. The performance and scope of the Sony EMC-MS908c is adequate for my present needs. In fact, for most indoor video, I'm content with the quality and range of the built-in mics. It's just the outdoor wind-noise issue that's troublesome. I'm don't know if the electronic 'wind-cut' feature was in any way improved on the HF-G30. I think it gives the option of High and Low level filtering? I saw one comparison of the XA10 and XA20 though, and there seemed to be quite a noticeable improvement in 'wind-cut' performance on the latter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Lewis View Post
The DM Accessories on looks like it might be the neatest option. Thanks for the heads up!
No problem. It's worth looking at, at least. Certainly looks well sturdy.

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 22nd, 2014 at 08:05 AM.
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Old August 22nd, 2014, 09:14 PM   #13
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Came across this earlier thread on the same subject:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xa...-hood-g10.html

What intrigued me were the 4th and 6th posts - the notion that the top plate of the HF-G10 casing could be replaced with that of the HA10 to provide a forward placed cold shoe - which, on the XA10 doubles as the front attachment for the removable handle.

Is that really possible and has anyone done it or has had it done? And what then becomes of the rear Advanced Mini Hot Shoe - is that then lost, or is that what the rear handle attachment on the XA10 is (plus the screws) ?

As for epoxy gluing or screwing a standard cold shoe plate to the HF-G10 top, I don't think I'd be so brave.

The high sensitivity of my Sony EMC-MS908c to handling noise is starting to bug me though, and (as per the photos in my first post) placing it a bit further forward with that short extension bracket doesn't really make a difference. I'm not sure how much a shock mount would help. I don't really want to get into the spider-web suspension type mounts, at least not mounted on the camcorder shoe.

Anyone used one of these Windtech shockmounts? :

BH (Links)


Shame the HF-G10 doesn't provide phantom power as I like the look of the Rode VideoMic Go:

BH (Links)


Or is there is any mini in-line (battery-powered) phantom power adapter that could be used?

Seems Canon went out of there way to deter people from using non-proprietary accessories on the HF-G10/20. Even the external microphone port input seems 'colder' than those on the Sony and Panasonic DV camcorders that I used the EMC-MS908c on before, certainly in Auto mode. Mind you it was pretty much the same on the HV30.

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 23rd, 2014 at 09:38 AM.
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Old August 23rd, 2014, 11:04 AM   #14
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Bryan, if you are looking about for an alternative microphone now, I would not suggest the Røde VideoMic GO, but the slightly more expensive Røde VideoMic with Lyre Suspension.

Rode VideoMic with Rycote Lyre Suspension System VIDEOMIC-R B&H

I have the older version with the rubber suspension, which is not quite as durable. The mic is really good and is my first choice for off camera mics when I am not using XLR gear. This is the other mic I am looking to attach to my second HF200.

There is also the option of the Canon DM-100 which can be picked up for around $200 on eBay. I have been very pleased with mine. It wasn't a separate purchase for me, but came with one of the cameras I bought. The expectations I had of it were not high but I have been very pleased. I did make a new wind cutter and dead cat for it to improve the outdoor performance.
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Old August 23rd, 2014, 11:45 AM   #15
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Re: HF-G10 and Mini Advanced Shoe Adapters

Thanks again Tim,

I'd have to say, the appeal of the Rode VideoMic Go for me is it's sub $100 pricing and adding to that the lightweight/compact form factor, coupled with the Lyre support system. Granted, the Rode VideoMic you suggested is not that much expensive but you are looking at a bulkier/heavier unit, taking into account that I would be perching it on that mini-to-standard shoe adapter - and I don't really know how robust that is. Anyhow, if the VideoMic Go, is a no-go, so to speak, that's all there is to it.

Yep, like I said, a DM-100 would probably be the most convenient option. Just can't see my budget stretching to that just now. Mind you, when you start totting up the cost of accessories needed to make something like the Sony ECM-MS908c really workable (shoe adapters, brackets, shock mounts etc) you wonder if it's worth it.

One other option I'm toying with however is attaching the mic with a flexible/gooseneck arm. I know there are quick release assemblies with long (dual) articulating arms, designed primarily for DSLR's, but what I'm thinking of is attaching a shorter arm to the Manfrotto 577 quick release plate I have. As you can see from the photo I linked to above, the base has two screw holes on the side for storing the optional 1/4"-20 and 3/16"-16 attachment screws. Could maybe screw attach a flex-arm with a shoe adapter to one of those. The thing about mounting on a bracket/grip is that you still get handling vibrations transmitted to the mic through the frame. Theoretically, since you wouldn't be holding the flexi-arm, handling noise could be reduced.

Something like this, with a shoe adapter, mic holder, via mini-ball head if needs be, screwed to one end:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SKIER-4-7-Ma...-/271186621008

or probably the longer (7.9") one for greater flexibility in positioning; I'd also want to use it with an LED video light.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SKIER-7-9-Mag...item41724c9477

I think that could work well. Portable too.

And I see you can also get stick-on shoe adapters:

BH (Links)


It doesn't say if the adhesive is "permanent" or not, but you could probably do something similar with removable picture hanging strips like these:

http://www.command.com/wps/portal/3M...4529207&rt=rud

I tried them before when I was (and still am) looking at alternative ways of sticking fur pads over the built-in mics, to make them truly re-usable. The part of the strip that normally attaches to a wall adheres very well to the camcorder body, but can be easily removed without leaving any residue. If the other part with permanent adhesive was not strong enough to hold a shoe adapter (I have one from a Sima video light bracket), I guess one could glue it to the strip. Might be OK for light accessories.

Why, the possibilities are endless. Yeah, right !

Last edited by Bryan Worsley; August 23rd, 2014 at 10:45 PM.
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