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Old January 15th, 2016, 12:12 PM   #1
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Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Probably for the first time, I tried hooking up my old HV20 to my new-ish Win7 HP Z230. And Windows doesn't see the device.

Some time ago, I did successfully capture DV tape from a Panasonic AG-DV2500 deck but only through a DV converter box (datavideo dac 100-mostly used to convert analog to digital but also has a 1394 passthrough)--a known problem with older DV decks.

I'm guessing the problem has to do with my installing Win 10 and uninstalling (d'oh! check driver compatibility first!).

I have three devices: the HV20 nothing happens when plugged in. Same with the DV converter box. Hooking up the DV deck causes a BSOD.

I've tried physically removing the firewire card from computer and reinstalling. Legacy and non legacy drivers. Windows claims the device is working properly.

I even bought a brand new cable.

Anybody got a clue what I need to do? I've seen other thread that talk about an application not being able to capture but in those cases, the camera is seen by windows and appears in the device list.
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Old January 15th, 2016, 05:40 PM   #2
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Did you upgrade to win 10 and then did a rollback to 7? I guess if you reinstall 7 it should be ok again if it had been working fine before.
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Old January 16th, 2016, 05:33 AM   #3
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Yeah, watch out if you re-install Windows 7. MS has been using increasingly subversive tactics to force the upgrade on users without a "No." option. This has been well documented.

Yes, Windows 8 onwards ditched ALL firewire support.

Worse comes to worse, rent or buy a PMW-EX30 (or later portable SxS deck like the PMW-50) and use the firewire port on it to convert your HDV footage to XDCAM. After converting to XDCAM, you can just handle it like any other file based format.
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Old January 16th, 2016, 02:38 PM   #4
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Actually, I did some more testing and I think the firewire port on the camera is bad. Connected the camera to the dv deck via firewire and didn't see anything. Saw the tape on the deck but when I put the tape in the camera--I saw it there but not on the monitor. I'm pretty sure it was working when I last used it but that was years ago.

So what happens if you hook up a (working) camera to a Win 8 or 10 machine? Will it appear in the device list or no?

And is there anyway to add dv capability to 8 or 10?
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Old January 16th, 2016, 02:42 PM   #5
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

I did do the win 10 upgrade intentionally. I heard that Edius 7 would work on it but found my HDMI card wouldn't. GV actually said they wouldn't support it but I found that out later...
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Old January 17th, 2016, 03:29 AM   #6
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Zhang View Post
Yes, Windows 8 onwards ditched ALL firewire support.
I cannot test because I don't have a camera with firewire connection anymore but one of my pc has a firewire connector attached to the motherboard and has win 10 on it, in the device manager I see: "IEEE 194 host controller - via 1394 OHCI compliant host controller" in the list of devices, is that not the firewireport? Would it not work if a camera would be attached then?
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Old January 17th, 2016, 05:41 AM   #7
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

A few observations that may or may not address your issue:

With Win 7 using the legacy IEEE1394 driver is often required.

Changes to camcorder playback modes should be made before the camcorder is connected to the PC. Otherwise the camcorder may not go into output mode at the IEEE 1394 port. Same may apply when connecting to a DV deck.

The HV20 IEEE 1394 port is easy to fry when connecting/disconnecting while power is on at the camcorder and the PC. Best to make the connections while both are powered off.

But it sounds like the problem is with the PC given that none of your firewire devices are detected. Can you try them on another PC - perhaps one a friend has?
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Old January 17th, 2016, 10:37 AM   #8
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Would it not work if a camera would be attached then?
That is the question! I think when you add a camera, the device list will show it separately. From reading posts from around the internet and from my ever so faulty memory, that seems correct. There should be a line that says 'cameras-->HV20'
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Old January 17th, 2016, 10:41 AM   #9
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

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Originally Posted by Don Palomaki View Post

The HV20 IEEE 1394 port is easy to fry
Really? Yeah, then this probably is the problem.

But why the other devices aren't recognized...

I wonder--could I add a win XP boot? Would that solve my problems?

{duh--not if its a hardware problem}
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Old January 18th, 2016, 03:55 AM   #10
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Andy have a read of this:

Announcing the availability of a standalone legacy 1394 OHCI (FireWire) package - Microsoft Windows USB Core Team Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

I have also heard that some people have had to install this as well to get it all to work

Movie Maker - Microsoft Windows

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Old January 18th, 2016, 10:23 PM   #11
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Chris' suggestion above is a really good one. If you go back a few years you'll find this was a really common problem, mostly with OB firewire. The simplest solution was to install a PCI firewire card, but if you hunted around long enough for drivers you'd usually eventually find one that worked.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 05:26 AM   #12
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

What IEEE1394 chip set and MB are you using?
Is it the same IEEE1394 card, MB, and version of Windows that worked for you in the past?
Have you tried the card in a different slot?

Some chip sets were problematic (from memory, TI was the most dependable and some VIA presented issues a number of years ago).

Can you find another machine with a known working IEEE1394 port to test?

Also, FWIW, some capture software must be precisely configured to the frame rate and format to recognize the data stream.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 07:19 AM   #13
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

When I worked the the labs for thirty years, troubleshooting technical issues was a step by step process of elimination until the root cause of the trouble was identified.

Andy, are you sure the firewire port on your HV-20 still works? You need to troubleshoot this technical problem you're experiencing by a process of elimination.

From what you mentioned about the problems with the Panasonic deck, I suspect the computer has issues. But the HV-20 could have a bad port too. One of my XH-A1 cameras has been repaired for this twice.

You need to check each device, camera and pc, one at a time to see if it works properly by seeing if it communicates with another device YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY works. Otherwise, your just guessing.

Edit: after reading further online about the DataVideo DAC 100 that you say you used. If you are using the same computer and it could capture DV from the DataVideo device, but not from your HV-20, then I strongly suspect your camera's firewire port is not working. This is especially true if the DAC 100 was used to pass through analog to DV from your camera because it wouldn't pass through DV to DV. If you were able to pass DV from your camera through the DAC 100 to your computer, but not able to go directly from the camera to the computer, then maybe the connector is bent a little, and fits well enough for the DAC 100 but not the computer. A new connector, cheap repair might fix it.

The tech that repaired the firewire on my XH-A1 explained sometimes it's just a connection problem, and he's able to just solder a new connector on. But both times the circuit board in my camera itself for the firewire port had a problem, and the board had to be replaced. That was a couple hundred bucks each time I had it done. Four pin firewire ports are fragile. That's why Canon put 6 pin port on XH-A1S model (which I also have). Much more sturdy.
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Last edited by Roger Van Duyn; January 19th, 2016 at 11:27 AM. Reason: further study
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Old January 19th, 2016, 07:25 PM   #14
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

I did a bunch more troubleshooting.

I am fairly positive the 1394 port on the hv20 is fried--can't see output through the converter or deck (monitoring via composite). I can see output via analog through both devices (but it looks yucky!).

I did make some progress as I was able to see the DAC-200 (not 100) in the device list. However, it appears that one port on the DAC-200 is fried. So, theoretically I can do analog transfers. But without the second port, I am unable to capture DV tapes.

For some reason, directly connecting the panny deck causes a BSOD.

Will Canon even work on an HV20 today?
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Old January 20th, 2016, 06:45 AM   #15
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Re: Win 7 doesn't see DV/HDV devices

Andy ~

Many moons back I has some bad times with XP and various 1394 Firewire devices. Just so that you can see what the complexity of the issues were back then I have uoloaded a Word Doc to Sendspace. You may have to resort to modifying the AVC.INF file like I did back then to get Firewire to work.

Bearing in mind this was like nine years ago and you are now talking Win7 64 I have also uploaded a Zip file to Sendspace that has four folders in it. Search for the names of these folders in your Windows directory. Check to see that your corresponding folders have the same files in them as those that are packed in the Zip file.

If any appear to be missing on your Win7 installation I would suggest you may have lost them. By replacing them with these clone files and restarting your PC you may find that your 1394 Firewire functionality might have returned. Assuming there isn't a toasted 1394 port in the chain somewhere.

These files have just come out of a Win7 Ultimate 64 that has fully functioning Firewire ports. The included AVC.INF file has virtually all Firewire device manufactures listed in it.

For some reason I was unable to upload the files to DVInfo today so you can pull them down from Sendspace if you want to give it a try.

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/v9beld

All care and no responsibility :)) Good luck!

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