HV10 has a better picture than the FX1 !

Mikko Lopponen · September 6th, 2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Wilson

Looking at the 12 comparison files of video footage (6 HV10 and 6 FX1 ) the HV10 looks to have a better picture in many respects.

Were the frames taken at keyframes or not? Keyframes look usually better than intermediate frames. That's one situation to deal with in hdv world. But it most likely won't cause that big a difference though.

Hc3 was reported to have way better low light than HC1 but all those video caps I've seen tend to not show that at all. I want video and straight from the camera. I tried downloading those clips, but didn't get any.

Quote:

Translation: "I own a FX1" ;)

And you're a spokesperson for Canon ;)

Jung Kyu · September 6th, 2006, 08:20 PM

3d tracking...tested on 3ds MAX

http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...titledy6y6.wmv

Lee Wilson · September 6th, 2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikko Lopponen

Were the frames taken at keyframes or not? Keyframes look usually better than intermediate frames. That's one situation to deal with in hdv world. But it most likely won't cause that big a difference though.

Good point, worth considering. I suppose if we were to step through the frames and spot a noticably better rendered image every 15 frames it would be worth noting. I didn't spot this of any footage, but still an interesting point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikko Lopponen

Hc3 was reported to have way better low light than HC1 but all those video caps I've seen tend to not show that at all. I want video and straight from the camera. I tried downloading those clips, but didn't get any.

And you're a spokesperson for Canon ;)

Everyone Buy Canon !!!!!!! :)

Fortunately for me I only own a lowly JVC MC500 (standard definition !!!!) so when viewing the various examples I hope I am not swayed by anything other than the quality I see in-front of me.

If you were to find a $400 dollar camera made by Sanyo that outshone a Sony Z1 and posted examples showing just that - you would find the thread besieged by Z1 owners telling you that this cannot be so, it must be the lighting or the set-up or post production or the recording settings or a mistake - it is impossible !!!

Spending large sums of money makes people inerrant about what they have bought.

But the truth is this years $400 products can outshine $2000 products from two or three years ago.

I still have read nothing in this thread to give me reason not to think the HV10 has the better image quality. I am torn between the HC1 for its manual control ring around the lens and its form factor and the HV10 for its sheer video quaity.

Lee Wilson · September 6th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jung Kyu

3d tracking...tested on 3ds MAX

http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...titledy6y6.wmv

See!! a flaw in the HV10 !!!!

If you look closely there is a large purple lens aberration towards the right hand side, a little like a purple teapot.

That wasn't on the FX1 examples.

_______________________________________

:)

---

Peter Macletis · September 7th, 2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Wilson

See!! a flaw in the HV10 !!!!

If you look closely there is a large purple lens aberration towards the right hand side, a little like a purple teapot.

That wasn't on the FX1 examples.

_______________________________________

:)

---

Now that's what I call a real "bug" on the HV10!!! :)

Hse Kha · September 7th, 2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jenkins

The colors look a little wierd

Please elaborate.

Steve Nunez · September 7th, 2006, 07:47 PM

We'll have to see how the 3CMOS FX7 (Sony) compares to the HV10. (I know different price points but worthy comparison as they represent the latest HDV offerings)

Lee Wilson · September 7th, 2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

We'll have to see how the 3CMOS FX7 (Sony) compares to the HV10. (I know different price points but worthy comparison as they represent the latest HDV offerings)

Why not the HVR-V1e also ?

Paulo Teixeira · September 10th, 2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Wilson

Why not the HVR-V1e also ?

Both the FX7 and the V1 should have identical video quality.

Nick Hiltgen · September 11th, 2006, 04:49 PM

I will volunteer to post screen caps of the xl-h1 and the hv-10 when I get the hv-10 in. if it's better then the xl-h1 that's awesome I'll just bring it along and shoot all of my footage with the camera taped on to the XL on the side opposite of the client...

Lee Wilson · September 11th, 2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

I will volunteer to post screen caps of the xl-h1 and the hv-10 when I get the hv-10 in. if it's better then the xl-h1 that's awesome I'll just bring it along and shoot all of my footage with the camera taped on to the XL on the side opposite of the client...

Great ! I am waiting ....

Peter Ferling · September 11th, 2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

I will volunteer to post screen caps of the xl-h1 and the hv-10 when I get the hv-10 in. if it's better then the xl-h1 that's awesome I'll just bring it along and shoot all of my footage with the camera taped on to the XL on the side opposite of the client...

LOL. My vendor told me to order an HV-10 to use a deck for the H1. Well, the H1 will make an impressive deck for the HV-10 when editing with the clients.

Noah Hayes · September 30th, 2006, 08:49 PM

Just something I want to add... (note: I own an FX1, but I'm not gonna argue here)

Most of these frames of comparisions are about the same as comparisions of the HC3/HC1/A1U to the FX1. In broad daylight there won't be much of a difference. The HV10 frames in some shots seemed marginally sharper, I think this probably has a lot to do with Canon's DSP. I expect in broad daylight the HV10 to look similar to even XLH1 footage, slightly softer, but comparable. The issue for the semi-pros/professionals who will be using the higher end gear is mic inputs, level of image control, depth of field, frame rate, and adjustability...all things that will be lacking in ANY consumer-oriented device like the HV10.

Who cares if the $1300 HV10 can get images near the same quality as the $3000 FX1 or $4000 XHA1...if I show up to a shoot with a camera that looks like an electric shaver, I'm gonna have a lot of explaining to do to justify the amount the client would be paying me...

"So why am I paying you $5000 when I could go to Best Buy or Circuit City and get that for $1300 and shoot it myself?" Granted I'm not someone who thinks we all need to carry around Sony F950's and a truck full of CCU's and Xserve RAIDs and monitors to shoot a wedding or something... I'm just saying its pointless trying to defend a 2-3 year old camera when a new one comes out that has approximately the same image quality at half the price. Also look at the last frame grab, the low-light capabilities of the FX1/Z1U/XLH1, ect are really where the higher priced cams shine.

Lee Wilson · September 30th, 2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah Hayes

Just something I want to add... (note: I own an FX1, but I'm not gonna argue here)

Most of these frames of comparisions are about the same as comparisions of the HC3/HC1/A1U to the FX1. In broad daylight there won't be much of a difference. The HV10 frames in some shots seemed marginally sharper, I think this probably has a lot to do with Canon's DSP. I expect in broad daylight the HV10 to look similar to even XLH1 footage, slightly softer, but comparable. The issue for the semi-pros/professionals who will be using the higher end gear is mic inputs, level of image control, depth of field, frame rate, and adjustability...all things that will be lacking in ANY consumer-oriented device like the HV10.

Who cares if the $1300 HV10 can get images near the same quality as the $3000 FX1 or $4000 XHA1...if I show up to a shoot with a camera that looks like an electric shaver, I'm gonna have a lot of explaining to do to justify the amount the client would be paying me...

"So why am I paying you $5000 when I could go to Best Buy or Circuit City and get that for $1300 and shoot it myself?" Granted I'm not someone who thinks we all need to carry around Sony F950's and a truck full of CCU's and Xserve RAIDs and monitors to shoot a wedding or something... I'm just saying its pointless trying to defend a 2-3 year old camera when a new one comes out that has approximately the same image quality at half the price. Also look at the last frame grab, the low-light capabilities of the FX1/Z1U/XLH1, ect are really where the higher priced cams shine.

Who cares if the $1300 HV10 can get images near the same quality as the $3000 FX1 or $4000 XHA1 ??

People like me !!! - who can not afford $4000 but would like similar image quality and are prepared to sacrifice the more professional features.

...Me !

Tom Hardwick · October 1st, 2006, 01:55 AM

Hse Kha (the second post in this long thread) says: ''The FX1 is totally outdated now. I can't see how people would buy it anymore...''

This is such a common statement made about *any* camera, and is just so much one-upmanship garbage. When you buy a photographer or cinematographer for a shoot you're buying in their experience first and foremost. Way down the line there's the equipment he uses.

Give me a seasoned pro with a 1976 film fed Nikon F4 over a newbie with his D-SLR. Give me someone with the nous to buy the FX1 over someone who accepts automatic internal ND filtration because he doesn't know what it's doing for him.

Camera - all camera - are cheap. The expensive and really valuable bit about filmmaking is the experience, and generally that only comes with time.

tom.

September 6th, 2006, 08:20 PM	#17
Jung Kyu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 143	.. 3d tracking...tested on 3ds MAX http://www.dvuser.co.kr/zboard/data/...titledy6y6.wmv

September 7th, 2006, 07:47 PM	#22
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	We'll have to see how the 3CMOS FX7 (Sony) compares to the HV10. (I know different price points but worthy comparison as they represent the latest HDV offerings) __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

September 11th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#25
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	I will volunteer to post screen caps of the xl-h1 and the hv-10 when I get the hv-10 in. if it's better then the xl-h1 that's awesome I'll just bring it along and shoot all of my footage with the camera taped on to the XL on the side opposite of the client... __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

September 30th, 2006, 08:49 PM	#28
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	Just something I want to add... (note: I own an FX1, but I'm not gonna argue here) Most of these frames of comparisions are about the same as comparisions of the HC3/HC1/A1U to the FX1. In broad daylight there won't be much of a difference. The HV10 frames in some shots seemed marginally sharper, I think this probably has a lot to do with Canon's DSP. I expect in broad daylight the HV10 to look similar to even XLH1 footage, slightly softer, but comparable. The issue for the semi-pros/professionals who will be using the higher end gear is mic inputs, level of image control, depth of field, frame rate, and adjustability...all things that will be lacking in ANY consumer-oriented device like the HV10. Who cares if the $1300 HV10 can get images near the same quality as the $3000 FX1 or $4000 XHA1...if I show up to a shoot with a camera that looks like an electric shaver, I'm gonna have a lot of explaining to do to justify the amount the client would be paying me... "So why am I paying you $5000 when I could go to Best Buy or Circuit City and get that for $1300 and shoot it myself?" Granted I'm not someone who thinks we all need to carry around Sony F950's and a truck full of CCU's and Xserve RAIDs and monitors to shoot a wedding or something... I'm just saying its pointless trying to defend a 2-3 year old camera when a new one comes out that has approximately the same image quality at half the price. Also look at the last frame grab, the low-light capabilities of the FX1/Z1U/XLH1, ect are really where the higher priced cams shine.

October 1st, 2006, 01:55 AM	#30
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Hse Kha (the second post in this long thread) says: ''The FX1 is totally outdated now. I can't see how people would buy it anymore...'' This is such a common statement made about any camera, and is just so much one-upmanship garbage. When you buy a photographer or cinematographer for a shoot you're buying in their experience first and foremost. Way down the line there's the equipment he uses. Give me a seasoned pro with a 1976 film fed Nikon F4 over a newbie with his D-SLR. Give me someone with the nous to buy the FX1 over someone who accepts automatic internal ND filtration because he doesn't know what it's doing for him. Camera - all camera - are cheap. The expensive and really valuable bit about filmmaking is the experience, and generally that only comes with time. tom.