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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old October 17th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #1
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Canon 24F and Final Cut Studio 5.1?

Has anybody tested the 24F output to Final Cut Pro?

Any issues?

Opinions on image quality?
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Old October 17th, 2006, 11:46 AM   #2
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We've used the HV10 as a loading deck the past couple weeks and successfully loaded over 40 hours of tape...some DV, some HDV 1080 24F. We did have some clips that were "wobbling" a bit, but I'm still not sure if that's a capture problem or playback problem through our Kona system (looks solid on the computer monitor).

It also has some random stops when digitizing...not sure what that is about. Still, if you're in a bind or don't want to move your deck, the HV10 is pretty handy as a remote loading machine.

Oh yeah, it shoots pretty awesome video, too. :-)

KW
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Old October 17th, 2006, 06:10 PM   #3
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I've yet to have any problem with the hv-10 as a deck sinc eI got it working with fcp5.1.2 now actually gettting the settings right required reloading final cut pro reupdating and adjusting the easy pre-set of 1080 24pHDV (for some reason on my computer it defaults to a 29.97 sequence instead of a 23.98. but when it loaded everything was beautiful. Of course I jsut bought the camera strictly to be used as a deck so if it hadn't worked you would have heard about it from me.
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Old August 31st, 2007, 01:52 PM   #4
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Do you guys capture as HDV 1080p24? Does it remove the pulldown?

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Old August 31st, 2007, 06:38 PM   #5
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I only recently moved to FCP 6.. before that I was using the HV20 and FCP 5 and shooting 24P. There was no option for pulldown that I ever encountered.. it all had to be done manually, outside of FCP (using JES).

FCS 2 with compressor - now, that's useful - does a really great job (make sure you have the files in a Bin in FCP 6 as 29.97 and then EXPORT TO COMPRESSOR out of FCP to get the best results). For some reason, dropping the files straight into compressor out of the finder has worse results (read in another thread).

Oh, and if you use G Film plugins to correct the 4:2:0 Chroma, your final footage will look stupidly good - 24P, and what looks to be a true 4:2:2. It's win-win.
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Old August 31st, 2007, 10:10 PM   #6
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I'm sorry, let me explain it more: shoot 24f on the H1, G1 and A1 and capture in the latest FCP 6 via the set up of HDV 1080p24. If you do that, does it remove the pulldown?

Thanks,

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Old August 31st, 2007, 10:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath McKnight View Post
I'm sorry, let me explain it more: shoot 24f on the H1, G1 and A1 and capture in the latest FCP 6 via the set up of HDV 1080p24. If you do that, does it remove the pulldown?

Thanks,

heath
I'm not the expert, but I think there's some confusion in this thread. Canon 24f is recorded as 24 frames, not with pulldown.

In contrast, Canon 24p (HV20) records 24p by pulling down the 24 progressive frames into a 60i stream.

Unless I, too, am confused, it is only 24p (HV20) that has to have the pulldown removed to end up with only 24 truly progressive frames.

The Canon A1, G1, H1 record video off an interlaced chip as progressive frames, but only 24 as the names suggests, and there is no pulldown to remove.
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Old August 31st, 2007, 10:55 PM   #8
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The recording output stage goes to 60i:

http://dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/articles/article06.php

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Old September 1st, 2007, 05:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath McKnight View Post
The recording output stage goes to 60i:

http://dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/articles/article06.php

heath
I think the difference may be that I'm talking about HDV and you're talking about DV. Or, perhaps I'm completely wrong. However, I will reference the second paragraph under the "Simple is Still Sexy" heading in this article:
http://www.videomaker.com/article/13174/
(Or perhaps the signal is recorded on tape in a 60i stream, but then the camera hardware is what sends only the 24 frames across the firewire... I don't know.)

More to the point, this is the HV20 forum, and the HV20 24p as compared to the XHA1, XHGI and XLHI 24f in HDV are significantly different in the way they record.

It is easy to get the 24f HDV (A1, G1, H1) into an editor that supports it (and I believe FCP does support it at this point... though I have never used FCP), but it's a different situation with the HV20 24p, where it's pretty much necessary to use AE, cineform or very roundabout free tools to get rid of the pulldown. (The Grass Valley staff also says that the Procoder 3 inverse telecine filter will take the pulldown out of the unflagged HV20 24p, though I don't know yet since I only have an A1 and am waiting for an HV20 to arrive)

However, as I mention, since this is the HV20 forum, it is likely you will get a better answer in the A1/G1 or XLHI forums, even if my explanations here have been incorrect.
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Old September 1st, 2007, 09:35 AM   #10
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Jack,

I'm talking HDV. I think the confusion is because Canon has stayed so quiet about 24F. I know if you capture in HDV 1080i60, the pulldown is there. I'm going to have to test at a friend's house when he gets back from a trip. I'm only talking about 24f, not the HV20's 24p. I understand how that works.

Basically, what I'm asking is this...if I capture 24f footage in HDV 1080p24, does Final Cut Pro 6.0.* remove the pulldown? Is there a pulldown to begin with?

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Old September 1st, 2007, 01:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Heath McKnight View Post
Jack,
Basically, what I'm asking is this...if I capture 24f footage in HDV 1080p24, does Final Cut Pro 6.0.* remove the pulldown? Is there a pulldown to begin with?

heath
Here are short (and probably correct) answers to your questions:

--When capturing the XH-A1 24f in FCP 6 use the "HDV 1080p24" preset

(FCP may also recognize the 24f on it's own for capture, and the preset is for the timeline. As I said before, I don't and have never used FCP, but I believe they do 24 progressive now, and Avid is the only one that doesn't -- or do they have it now, too?)

--Canon HDV 24f is recorded to tape (and sent over firewire) as only 24 frames per second. On tape and over firewire it is true 24 frame progressive video (23.976). However, and this is where some of the confusion comes in, there are repeat flags that tell software or hardware where to add pulldown if it is needed. Because of these repeat flags various software will report 24f as different frame rates, but it is still only 24 frames per second. (Note: HDV 24f output to analog is a different case.)

I don't know where you can get the answer you want from someone who uses FCP. I see you have asked the same question in a couple of places as it came up in a thread, and you haven't received an answer. I do know that in the JVC HD100/200 forum there are several expert FCP users who keep up on the latest updates. The 24p issue was important to JVC owners who used FCP, because Apple took a very long time to come out with decent 24p support that worked with the JVC camera.
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Old September 2nd, 2007, 11:13 AM   #12
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Thanks, Jack. I'm going to experiment next.

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