25p on HV10? Article, German Translation at DVinfo.net

Wayne Morellini · November 24th, 2006, 11:20 PM

By the look of it he is saying that he can set the camera to 25fps progressive and got rid of interlace. But he says that this seems to reduce the resolution, like on Sony cameras progressive modes.

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...%26as_qdr%3Dm3

Can anybody interpret this properly, as reduced resolution 25p, is as useless as tits on a bull.

It would be interesting to see test chart comparisons, and movement comparisons between these modes, as was done of the Sony A1 when this question came up.

Bryan James · November 24th, 2006, 11:36 PM

the google translation...
http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

It seems that the reviewer stepped down the frame rate of his PAL HV10 to 25fps just like we drop down to 30? Possibly the "loss of resolution" is motion blur?

My google german to english is a little rusty!

-=Bryan

Steven Fokkinga · November 25th, 2006, 06:02 AM

Brushing up my german, and making some assumptions, I think he's talking about when you put the shutter to 1/25, it de-interlaces automatically (like older cams like the legendary vx1000 did). You could do the same with a less 'dreamy' look by doing a rough de-interlace in your editor, since both will approximately halve resolution.

Steven

Wayne Morellini · November 26th, 2006, 01:12 AM

So, this is nothing to do with a low light shooting mode, or lamp function?

When you say de-interlace internally, which one does he mean (anybody):

- Just that the two 25th/sec fields shutters overlap (I think, like old XL1s)
- The camera interpolates, or sums, every two vertical lines like the Sony Vx2100 does.
- The camera puts the fields through an de-interlace routine

- or (preferably). It sets the senor too, and captures, true progressive frames?

Only the last choice, and de-interlacing is a good choice for us. Progressive compresses better than interlace.

Is there any test shots and footage of the HV10 in 30th mode?

Thanks

Wayne.

Mathieu Kassovitz · November 26th, 2006, 07:57 AM

Repeated post now deleted. . .

Mathieu Kassovitz · November 26th, 2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Fokkinga

Brushing up my german, and making some assumptions, I think he's talking about when you put the shutter to 1/25, it de-interlaces automatically (like older cams like the legendary vx1000 did). You could do the same with a less 'dreamy' look by doing a rough de-interlace in your editor, since both will approximately halve resolution.

Steven

Both? Or not? Because if with the shutter 1/25 we have 25 progressive-like and not truly just interlaced, the outcome might be full and not half resolution. . .or isn't it so?

Wayne Morellini · November 26th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Every field has to have it's own separate shutter in interlace. By extending this shutter, you are at least making it overlap, reducing the interlace effect, but not eliminating it. But this would mean that the integration of field one would overlap with the integration of field 2 of the previous frame. But maybe they could be shifting the two shutters to exactly the same period to stop this. From distant memory I think the XL1 used the version that did not perfectly overlap.

Anybody know anything about this?

Fergus Anderson · December 2nd, 2006, 05:26 PM

Well today I went out and shot various bits of footage and tested the priority 25 shutter option. It does totally remove horizonatal interlacing artifacts when played in VLC but I do think some resolution may be lost too - it is subtle though. I do have some samples if anyone can point me in the right direction?

Cheers

Wayne Morellini · December 3rd, 2006, 09:22 AM

If this is the case on both live action footage and panning hi contrast resolution charts, that's great. Lack of resolution needs comparison shoots between mode on and off with a static resolution chart same position and uncompressed frames.

My bet is,that if the thing is only a pretend mode, you will see averaging/summing, or one field missing.

Fergus Anderson · December 3rd, 2006, 09:29 AM

when I return next week I will do some stattic shots and post them so we can compare.

Fergus Anderson · December 4th, 2006, 10:54 AM

I have posted some samples on the "Various Samples" thread
Im still not clear if its truly progressive or not but I do think there is a slight loss in resolution.

Wayne Morellini · December 4th, 2006, 11:23 AM

Thanks Fergus

November 24th, 2006, 11:20 PM	#1
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	25p on HV10? Article, German Translation By the look of it he is saying that he can set the camera to 25fps progressive and got rid of interlace. But he says that this seems to reduce the resolution, like on Sony cameras progressive modes. http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...%26as_qdr%3Dm3 Can anybody interpret this properly, as reduced resolution 25p, is as useless as tits on a bull. It would be interesting to see test chart comparisons, and movement comparisons between these modes, as was done of the Sony A1 when this question came up.

November 26th, 2006, 07:57 AM	#5
Mathieu Kassovitz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: paris Posts: 289	Repeated post now deleted. . . Last edited by Mathieu Kassovitz; November 26th, 2006 at 08:36 AM.

November 24th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#2
Bryan James New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Va Posts: 5	the google translation... http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools It seems that the reviewer stepped down the frame rate of his PAL HV10 to 25fps just like we drop down to 30? Possibly the "loss of resolution" is motion blur? My google german to english is a little rusty! -=Bryan

November 25th, 2006, 06:02 AM	#3
Steven Fokkinga Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 204	Brushing up my german, and making some assumptions, I think he's talking about when you put the shutter to 1/25, it de-interlaces automatically (like older cams like the legendary vx1000 did). You could do the same with a less 'dreamy' look by doing a rough de-interlace in your editor, since both will approximately halve resolution. Steven

November 26th, 2006, 01:12 AM	#4
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	So, this is nothing to do with a low light shooting mode, or lamp function? When you say de-interlace internally, which one does he mean (anybody): - Just that the two 25th/sec fields shutters overlap (I think, like old XL1s) - The camera interpolates, or sums, every two vertical lines like the Sony Vx2100 does. - The camera puts the fields through an de-interlace routine - or (preferably). It sets the senor too, and captures, true progressive frames? Only the last choice, and de-interlacing is a good choice for us. Progressive compresses better than interlace. Is there any test shots and footage of the HV10 in 30th mode? Thanks Wayne.

November 26th, 2006, 10:18 PM	#7
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Every field has to have it's own separate shutter in interlace. By extending this shutter, you are at least making it overlap, reducing the interlace effect, but not eliminating it. But this would mean that the integration of field one would overlap with the integration of field 2 of the previous frame. But maybe they could be shifting the two shutters to exactly the same period to stop this. From distant memory I think the XL1 used the version that did not perfectly overlap. Anybody know anything about this?

December 2nd, 2006, 05:26 PM	#8
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	Well today I went out and shot various bits of footage and tested the priority 25 shutter option. It does totally remove horizonatal interlacing artifacts when played in VLC but I do think some resolution may be lost too - it is subtle though. I do have some samples if anyone can point me in the right direction? Cheers

December 3rd, 2006, 09:22 AM	#9
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	If this is the case on both live action footage and panning hi contrast resolution charts, that's great. Lack of resolution needs comparison shoots between mode on and off with a static resolution chart same position and uncompressed frames. My bet is,that if the thing is only a pretend mode, you will see averaging/summing, or one field missing.

December 3rd, 2006, 09:29 AM	#10
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	when I return next week I will do some stattic shots and post them so we can compare.

December 4th, 2006, 10:54 AM	#11
Fergus Anderson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 321	I have posted some samples on the "Various Samples" thread Im still not clear if its truly progressive or not but I do think there is a slight loss in resolution.

December 4th, 2006, 11:23 AM	#12
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Thanks Fergus