HV20..What are the benefits of Progessive Scanning and 24p recording? at DVinfo.net

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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:17 PM   #1
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HV20..What are the benefits of Progessive Scanning and 24p recording?

Sorry guys, it's me again...the guy salivating for HDV answers. :)

So it appears many of you are excited about the HV20 and it's rubbing off on me, but I need to "know" why!

So please tell me what the benefits of 24p Recording and Progressive Scanning are.

This is what I have gathered so far (if correct that is):

24p allows for a more cinematic look and the HV20 "will" record footage in that mode?

Progressive will record footage without the de-interlacing lines giving us better image quality?

I have no problems forking over another Grand+ for these features, but I will need the ability to explain to my Wife why I "needed" the newer version.

Also with the added HDMI port and a Black Magic Intensity PCI card, Chris mentioned you can capture straight to PC without HDV compression which I take to mean the IQ will be even better?

Please bare with me Ladies and Gentlemen as I'm a new HDV addict and I need to get up to speed asap.

Many, many thanks.

Brad

You know, it's kinda weird jumping for joy and not knowing truly why! Just hearing you guys so excited about the HV20 has me saying... "I'm in, I'm in, can I play?"


*edit*

So am I correct in assuming that capturing with the HDMI card actually transfers the footage at 1920x1080 rather than 1440x1080?
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:25 PM   #2
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Hi Brad,

24p was a big deal several years ago when it was finally available in an affordable camcorder, the Panasonic DVX100. "Affordable" is a highly relative term -- it still cost several thousand dollars but it was the least expensive way to shoot in 24 frames per second, which is a video frame rate that emulates the motion signature of the movies you see at the neighborhood Cineplex, which are shot on 35mm motion picture film.

You might browse through our Panasonic DVX100 and Canon XL2 boards; there are scores of discussions there relating to 24p and what it's all about. Hope this helps,
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:33 PM   #3
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Thanks Chris.

I'll dig around.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 01:54 PM   #4
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ha! u funny

and Soylent Green seems to be a dupe of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" : )
(is it true that there are a total of 29 plots for all the movies there ever were?)

hey! you edited while I was typing
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Old January 31st, 2007, 02:32 PM   #5
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Brad,

The 24P recording also requires more careful and disciplined camerawork for it to look good. Home video style, spontaneous framing and movements will not look good at the low frame rates of 24P because it will look stuttering (is that a word?). So really, all these features that people are exciting about (24P, mic input, etc.) are very esoteric and only needed in a very specific style of shooting. For the average enthusiast, shooting in 60i is fine and you can still have very good production values with careful attention to good camerawork.

The HDMI is really only important as a convenient way to hook up the camera to a HDTV. The uncompressed output is there but to take advantage of it you'd need a computer with sufficient horsepower and storage to record that huge amount of data. Again, this is a nice bonus for very specific applications but for the casual user, you'll never use it.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 02:39 PM   #6
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Right, we shouldn't forget that the HV10 takes amazing 60i footage, and now we have the HV20 which hopefully will be just as good for 60i with a bunch of extra features. For example I can now use my nice boom mic for better audio, big plus.

24p is quite useful for doing FX shots. Interlacing is the bane of anyone doing FX work, be it roto or keying. Also if you are doing roto work, 24 fps means quite a bit less work than 30 fps. Also if you are distributing web videos the bandwidth can be reduced slightly.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:07 PM   #7
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In short, 24p is Godsend. I dont know how they justified outting all these features in such a low price, but I am not complaining. I bet this will outsell any other camcorder, ever made in the $800-$1500 range.

This will be used in reality tv shows for quick and dirty pickup shots, high schools will use them in classes, new parents, film makers... a large spectrum will find great value in this little machine.

I cant wait.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Vaughan
So am I correct in assuming that capturing with the HDMI card actually transfers the footage at 1920x1080 rather than 1440x1080?

Yes, and also HDMI is way of avoiding HDV (MPEG2) compression.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:13 PM   #9
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Im in the UK so being PAL will we get 25p? Are there any advantages / disadvantages over 24P Not using pulldown? I wonder if it will have the same issues as the V1 with 25p? I must say its very annoying that in PAL land we never get 24p!!! Does anyone know if you will be able to send the camera off to canon to get 60i and 24p functionality added like they do with the A1?
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:48 PM   #10
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Anyone know how well the 24P footage will match with the 24F footage from the A1? How difficult or easy will it be to edit both in the same timeline?
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Old January 31st, 2007, 03:49 PM   #11
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forgot to add what is HDV2? - will it record 1920x1080?
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Old January 31st, 2007, 04:25 PM   #12
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Ah ha, answered the progressive scanning question myself thanks to good ole Google and Wikipedia...


Advantages of progressive scan:

* Simpler video processing equipment
* Easier compression
* Higher resolution and fewer artifacts in video with motion compared to
interlaced video of the same line rate.

Sounds fantastic to me! Man, I'm lovin this HD goodness! Looks like I got addicted at the right time!
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Old January 31st, 2007, 04:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus Anderson
forgot to add what is HDV2? - will it record 1920x1080?
It's nothing new. HDV2 is just an unofficial designator for the "Sony" 1080i flavor of HDV, as opposed to the "JVC" 720p flavor of HDV (referred to here as HDV1). HDV2 records to tape as 1440 x 1080 anamorphic.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 04:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kamerman
Anyone know how well the 24P footage will match with the 24F footage from the A1? How difficult or easy will it be to edit both in the same timeline?
It should be easy, since both capture as 24p. The motion signature should be identical between the two.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 04:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergus Anderson
I must say its very annoying that in PAL land we never get 24p! Does anyone know if you will be able to send the camera off to canon to get 60i and 24p functionality added like they do with the A1?
No, there won't be any "upgrade" path like there is for the pro-level cameras. The reason why you never get 24p in PAL land is because you already have it: 25p. The human eye certainly can't detect the one frame per second difference. And if you ever need 24p for some reason, it's a fairly simple process to convert 25p to 24p.
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