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Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.


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Old October 1st, 2007, 04:13 AM   #61
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So, I've captured full HDMI from the HV20..

It's 4:2:2, as suspected.

It's 8bit, as suspected.

My workflow is now ProRes 422 which works well with the high-output of the HV20.

Case closed!
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Old October 1st, 2007, 06:59 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Ducon View Post
So, I've captured full HDMI from the HV20..

It's 4:2:2, as suspected.

It's 8bit, as suspected.

My workflow is now ProRes 422 which works well with the high-output of the HV20.

Case closed!
Give us a looky look!! If you don't mind.
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Old October 1st, 2007, 07:05 PM   #63
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Svyatoslav Pylypchuk's thread will show the same thing and it's ready to go!

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=104431

I'll have something ready in a month or so lol. Mr. Pylypchuk's footage is tack sharp!
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Old October 1st, 2007, 10:26 PM   #64
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Robert,

IS that 1440x1080 or 1920x1080?
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 02:19 PM   #65
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The signal that comes out of the HDMI port when looking at any content off the HV20 is 1920x1080. However, I don't know if the image is internally processed at 1440x1080 or 1920x1080. Frankly, it looks just great.

When I captured LIVE video via HDMI to the computer, when viewing on playback, the chroma looked very good.

Looking Svyatoslav's footage, I see the same thing with the red's as in my footage - small horizontal lines. While 4:2:2 is bound to have this (as it's not 1:1 luma to chroma mapping), because I don't have footage from any higher-end 4:2:2 camera's to view, I'm not sure if this is 100% normal for 4:2:2 or if this is particular effect is due to the camera internally processing the image at 1440x1080.

Someone else care to prove if the cam is processing it's true 1920x1080 from the chip?
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 06:59 PM   #66
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It captures 1440 tall "video" pixels, which when corrected for a computer's square pixels equals, wait for it, exactly 1920.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 08:47 PM   #67
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Looking for proof here..

The HV20's sensor as Canon states, is and uses 1920 pixels by 1080 pixels, square pixels.

Without referring to HDV at all, and rather, the way that the video signal is internally processed, then if anyone can provide proof that the sensor is seeing/using only 1440 rectangular pixels, please do. Likewise with the 1920 square pixel internal processing. Perhaps seeing that the chroma is 'stretched' is proof enough.
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 10:16 PM   #68
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Personally I believe this is where their claim for "True" 1920x1080 comes into play. Why would it be otherwise?

In the end it does not matter...just look at the magnificent picture it produces.
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Old October 3rd, 2007, 03:39 PM   #69
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In additon to my experience shooting charts, I'm pretty sure that I've read definitively that the signal is 1440 (remember, it's a debayered CMOS reconstruction, so there isn't a 1-to-1 relationship between sensor pixels and RGB signal pixels.)

If I'm confusing cameras, I apologize, but I think this is the case.
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Old October 3rd, 2007, 05:55 PM   #70
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Maybe, maybe, but HV20 is very good:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=104431
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Old October 3rd, 2007, 06:34 PM   #71
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I agree, it looks incredible. My point, exactly, actually. I think people get way too hung-up on this 1920 vs 1440 concern. It's important to remember that until very recently NO camera recorded 1920. Its also important to understand the difference between tall video pixels and square computer pixels, because the difference between 1440 video and 1920 computer is even smaller than the raw number suggests.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 01:48 AM   #72
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This thread isn't about the merits of square-to-rectangle pixels. It's about whether anyone knows/can prove either way. If no one is able to prove, it's a non-issue. If someone can prove, then it's proven and then known, and then a non-issue. Just seeking knowledge, trying to avoid debating if it's a debatable issue or not.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 08:01 AM   #73
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If Svyatoslav could shoot a chart, we could see if HDMI uncompressed resolved any more actual horizontal resolution.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 02:52 PM   #74
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My understanding is....

its 1920 - non compressed straight from the HDMI port (pre-tape)
its 1440 - compressed from the firewire port (post tape)
and its back to 1920 - un-compressed from the HDMI port ( post tape )

So the camera will un-compress the 1440 tape footage out of the HDMI
port at 1920...

so if your workflow is 1920, just stay with the HDMI port ( pre or post tape )

if your workflow is 1440, just stay with the firewire port ( pre or post tape )
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